#342 - Dean Macfarlan - Founding Partner @ Macfarlan Capital Partners - 10 Life Lessons

Chris Powers: Dean, thanks for joining me today. Appreciate it.

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah, thank you, Chris. It's a pleasure to be here.

Chris Powers: For those listening, Dean and I met up in the mountains this summer and spent 48 hours together. And it was a good gig. Cloud camp is unique, and I got to sit and listen to Dean talk. It changed how I thought about many things, and I'm glad we've been able to build a friendship since. It will be a lot of fun. Let's start with your upbringing. Who is Dean?

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah, Dean is the product of two amazing parents, Duncan and Joan McFarlane, who brought me into the world at ages 9, 26, and 58.

I'm 65, and I feel grateful, Chris, to have the family of origin that I have. You can hear many people's stories when you stay alive for a long time. I'm sure my parents were very imperfect, but they tried hard.

They got a lot right. And we'll talk more about it, but a big part of my dad and I are similar people in that we're not going to whip anybody with our smarts; we better work hard and figure out, have a little bit of a street smart, street sense about us and he, definitely gave me both those things and I'm forever grateful for that.

And, fantastic family, I hear a lot of stories of, a lot of wreckage, in a family of origin. And that just wasn't the case. I had an excellent upbringing. We did have some challenges. My dad was a very successful insurance guy, a corporate executive type. So we moved a lot, which was difficult for a young man. We covered a lot of ground. I was born in Jacksonville, Florida- a great spot—and then moved to Minneapolis, Minnesota. Then again, to Minnetonka, Minnesota, and then to Houston, Texas, for elementary school and junior high, brought me to Texas, which I'm forever grateful because I ultimately got back here.

But, the high school years were a challenge. I moved up to New Jersey. And for a young Texas kid who says yes, ma'am and no, ma'am to his teachers, you travelled to New Jersey. It's a different ball game. It's like being on the moon. So, anyway, I'm super grateful for all that. They just instilled a lot of fantastic qualities.

My mom is my hero. I talked about my dad, but it's not that my dad wasn't great. My mom carried a heavy load because my dad was on the road a lot, and she just was. She did a great job being a boy's mom but demanded a lot and was loving. She was also a taskmaster and was fearless in telling me how things should work.

I'm so grateful for both of them. Let me touch on my brother and sister. If I think about heroes, my brother Andy is my mother. My brother and I will discuss other powerful influences and mentors who brought me tremendous joy and encouragement.

But my brother's four years older. He was blessed with all the smarts in the family. He is a brilliant man. He's a doctor by profession, almost retired from that now, but he's a hero in how he led his life. I'm a person of faith, and a big part of that is that he introduced me to that.

We can discuss that later, but the family's crown jewel is my sister, Joni, which you said we might want to dive into now. That is one of my favourite topics to discuss because of her incredible influence on my life: my mom and dad, my brother, and our friends. We all love Joni, and her journey has been different.

She is what I would call a high-functioning special needs person. And I say that precisely because God uniquely made her that way. It was not a mistake, but at birth, she experienced some things that caused some damage that caused her journey to be different.

But I look forward to introducing you because she is a joy. She would be on this mic rather than me if she were sitting here. She would want to talk to you and have no fear whatsoever. She's just a kind soul who moved to Dallas two years ago.

She lives about a quarter of a mile from our house, and every day is a blast with her. It is so that we can talk more about that, but she's significantly impacted my life. From the get-go and continues to this day, it teaches me a lot about my inadequacies and how I navigate this world, and I love that a wise man once said that you need to be joyful always. That is not a choice. It's a command, and she does that, how she's wired. She chooses his joy, and it influences all of us around her. 

Chris Powers: Well, I talked to a few people leading up to this, and virtually everybody said you have to talk about Joni and her impact. So, let's keep going there for a second.

What is it about Joni? We hear special needs, and we can thank maybe; we don't know how to approach it, but almost unequivocally, when you talk to people who have special needs in their families, it's always them who, as you said, have the joy. You wish you had what they had. What has she witnessed that you've seen since it impacted you?

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah. My wife says this all the time: This describes Joni: the pure in heart will see God, and she truly has a pure heart. She loves people and is a kind soul who can stir things up, too. She can create a few challenges every once in a while.

She likes it; she's in McFarland and likes getting her way. That's genetic in our household, but what makes her unique is how she navigates the world. Her focus is on the person. She must look past everybody, figuring out who they will talk to next.

She looks into your soul when talking to you and genuinely appreciates people. She loves a good conversation and a big hug. She is very thoughtful. A gal at my office is having a baby, and a baby shower is coming. And three times a day, she's calling me because she's got to be sure she gets Rebecca a baby shower gift.

And I don't think about those things as much as she does, but it's just little things like that, and it's how she makes you feel when you're with her. Isn't that true of all relationships? You just come away from certain people and go, wow, I feel valued.

I feel seen. I feel accepted. And that's Joni. 

Chris Powers: It's incredible. All right. You said my parents didn't get everything right, but they got a lot. They got this right if you had to pick one or two things to say. And I'm hoping that I'm getting this right, too, in my household. What would those be?

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah. It is people over everything; relationships are the highest priority. Any of us can ever have. That's all we'll take home with us; we won't; you and I are both investors and business builders and want to impact every aspect of our lives, including that one. But all we'll take with us is the relationships and the investment we made in other people's lives while we were here.

My mom and dad were very relationship-oriented people. And I say it starts with their relationship. My mom was a faith-based person. My dad wasn't. He was a person who had unbelievable core values. I talked to you about the work ethic he gave me, and he wanted to be a man above reproach.

He had high integrity and character, and I wanted to ensure he developed that in us as kids. So, those core values they transferred to us were super important. My mom was the most selfless person I've ever known. And I mean that in an appropriate way. I mean, she gave her life away for us as kids and her husband and they, their marriage, let's see, he passed away when I was 30, he was 61 years old from cancer.

But he was the husband of one wife, and their marriage was, let's see, close to. They got married when he was 20 and she was 18. So they had a long marriage and were mutually committed to each other. And honestly, that's a big part of why I talked about my family of origin. Tony and I've been married for 43 years.

That is the most incredible privilege and the greatest gift I could ever receive: somebody uniquely committed to an imperfect person like me. They will believe this is important and want to make it last. And so I cannot underestimate the difference in my parents' lives, and it's transferred into mine and my wife's.

Chris Powers: And we're going to talk about that in a second because when I, when you were introduced, and when they were talking about you at Cloud Camp, the young guys, but also the older guys, they all said one thing. They said nobody has a better marriage than those two right there.

Dean Macfarlan: That's super kind. 

Chris Powers: And that was Mac. That was Trevor. That was the young people. And then the older folks that knew you, they said, that's who you need to focus on right there. We'll get there in a second. Your brother brought you to Christ. How'd he do that?

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah, it's a unique story because, like many older brother, younger brother relationships, it wasn't a cakewalk.

I mean, we butted heads a lot, and he was an athlete and played football; he was everything; I wasn't intelligent, athletic, or gifted. And I was, I was. I don't, I don't want to; I was the way God made me. Okay. So I'm okay with it, but that wasn't me; I struggled with insecurities. I was overweight and easily discouraged, and so we butted heads a lot.

And, in high school, all of a sudden, I started growing; I was four years behind him, and he's 5'10, well, he says 5'11, there's no way. But, yeah, we butt a lot, but I started growing, and so, in high school, I got more extensive, and they couldn't push me around as much; he and his other buddies and that was good.

I could fight back. I grew 4 inches in a 1, 4, to 6 months and got up to 6, 4. I'm not 6 or 4 anymore, but ageing will do that to you. But yeah, to answer your question, Andy came into his relationship with Christ through the ministry of young life.

And that's a familiar story for many people who grew up around that ministry. He became earnest and committed to his faith at a very early age, 15 or 16 years old. And then, practically speaking, I love telling this story cause it's so simple. Back in the day, there were J. B. Phillips Bibles. They're still around but not in as high use, but he gave me a J. B. Phillips Bible. And he just said, Hey man, I suggest you investigate this man's claims, Jesus, because if they are authentic, it changes everything. And you've got to decide what you do with Jesus.

I thought that's wild, but I'll read the book.

Chris Powers: At that point, you were not on either side of the train; you were just agnostic.

Dean Macfarlan: I wasn't as agnostic. I should have started there. I was raised in the church. My mom practised her faith in the Catholic Church, which interested me. I always had a reverence for God. I did that; I think that kept me wanting to serve my parents, and a reverence for God kept me from making many poor decisions. And so I'm super grateful for that. I was committed to God and interested in loving and serving God, but I didn't understand salvation.

I didn't understand what Jesus had done personally for me on the cross and that he invited all of us to respond to that and have our lives transformed by the power of the Spirit moving in us. So he gave me a book that was inspired. When you read it and allow it to work in your life, it will change everything.

So, I started with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I knew I was a mess. I needed this person the Bible was talking about, Jesus. That would be my way to restore my relationship with this holy God I love, want to love and serve. 

Chris Powers: And that Matthew, through John, has had, I followed that same journey.

If you start in the Old Testament, it's an excellent place to start, but it's tough. If you haven't read the Bible, I couldn't recommend it more highly. I recommend going through Matthew through John, stopping in there and reflecting.

Dean Macfarlan: Absolutely. I can't agree more. It's deep. And, like I said, I wasn't going to whip anybody with my intellect, so I needed simple stories.

And frankly, that's why Proverbs is so helpful to me. A friend, mentor, and partner in life and ministry for many years got me started in the Proverbs, probably 25 years ago. They're just such valuable tools to navigate life, and they're short.

Most of them are short, and the verses are brief, making them easier to remember and memorize. But yeah, I'm super thankful for my brother, and that is why he's one of my heroes: He changed my life just by offering me a book. 

Chris Powers: So you read that, and then? What happened after you were done reading the New Testament?

Dean Macfarlan: Well, it, very early on, God gave me an appetite to grow in my faith. And I knew Philippians 3 10, which says, I want to know Christ and the power of resurrection. And the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him and his death. And so very quickly, that was the first scripture I ever memorized.

And I wanted to know this, Jesus. I wanted to understand how it all fits together and how a triune is gone. What do father, son, and Holy Spirit mean? And so I had this passion to dig in. And so I made Bible intake a big part of my life from the time I was born. I came to my relationship with Christ this summer when I was 17.

So I'm 65. It's been a long journey. And I can't imagine my life without His Spirit at work in me and the instruction of his word. And the counsel and care of otherwise friends make all the difference in the world, or at least that's for me. 

Chris Powers: And you could probably sit here and say at 65, you're still learning as much about.

Dean Macfarlan: Oh, man, you have no idea.

I do not have a corner on the market regarding wise living. I would; the answer to that is absolutely. And that's one of the things when we get into life lessons, one of which is intentional learning. I want to continue that for the rest of my days, and we never have it all figured out.

We're all on a journey, and we're incomplete. There are a lot of pieces of the puzzle, and what we do know is that there's a place where we can seek wisdom. And then it's the question of whether you intellectually understand and know it, or does your heart allow you to apply what you're learning?

And that's the goal. Wisdom is the application of wise principles. Then the question is, where does your wisdom come from?

Chris Powers: Well, speaking of wisdom and speaking of one of the relationships that God tells us is most important is your spouse; when somebody introduces me and says that guy's figured out marriage, probably more than anybody, maybe we can talk about what you do about marriage and your relationship with Tawny that maybe others could benefit from.

Dean Macfarlan: Let me start with her because if I describe her, you'll go, Oh, man, you hit the motor load because I did. She is a person of great depth and faithfulness in it. At the same time, it's this beautiful thing of depth and simplicity. I'm prone to, and I want to work, achieve, learn, and grow. I have ten steps to take a deeper relationship here or there or what I want to accomplish. I may have shared this with you when we were up at Cloud Camp, but I've been a guy since I was 17; I always had my goals every year I evaluated, and I had a personal mission statement that came from God's word. 

That informed a lot of my thinking, so I was purposeful. When Tony and I got married, I would go over all my, Hey, here's my strategy, and these are my goals. And this is what I want to grow. And this is all; some of it is good. You always want to Sharpen yourself and be a better person, friend, and hopefully a better husband.

And I said, so sweetie, what are your goals? Could you share them with me? And she goes, I want to love God and be happy, what that's it. That's it. Come on. Did you write it down? She goes, I don't need to, and that's my wife. She navigates life so incredibly well, and where I can, my energy and how I'm wired will take me up and down. And I live hard to love hard. I'm loud. I can create conflict in my relationships by not saying things appropriately, which may discourage folks. And she's just so consistent. And when you are in a business like we are, where we exert a lot of effort when they have to travel significantly, there's a lot of temptations having somebody in your home, that's the best place to be at the end of the day.

You cannot wait to go home because that person loves you. And in the form of a wife, she completes you; that language is beneficial when you're thinking about marriage. And she's just done a fantastic job of that. And so, as a tremendous support and encourager, what is courage?

What is encouragement? It's breathing courage into someone. And she's done that for me. She's a massive part of who I am and how God has shaped me through her. And, yeah, it completed me in all honesty and continues to today because I can create a lot of frustration and in relationships and, she helps; by his grace, I'm better than I was when I was 40 or 20, but there's still a lot of room for improvement there. And she's a great help with that. 

Chris Powers: You've seen a lot of folks, even through re-engaging at church, but you've seen. Imagine many listeners are entrepreneurs in their thirties or forties—they're us. They've got prominent personalities. They drive hard, but you've seen things, myself included.

And you've heard a little about my story, but you've seen it where it can go off the rails. What gets it back on the rails?

Dean Macfarlan: Awesome question. These principles are consistent for people of faith or who have yet to arrive at their beliefs and are still searching and investigating.

But the first one starts with drawing a circle around yourself. The reintegration ministry is so powerful and genuinely a discipleship tool for marriage. That's all it is. It's giving you principles to navigate tough things because, as we talked about, we all create conflict.

So, the first step in resolving conflict is acknowledging that you don't get to decide how everything ends; you draw a circle around yourself, focus on the challenges you have in your own life, and let Tony worry about her life. That is a crucial principle in any relationship, but especially in marriage. Then, understand what God thinks about marriage—that it's essential for life.

I realized many things happen in the world, and divorce can occur in a broken world, and it does, but it's not the end. It's an opportunity to grow, be sharpened, and be encouraged, and hopefully, I've seen many people remarry, so it's not the end.

And God loves divorced people, so we should do it. It's not, and it doesn't define you. It's a part of your journey. 

Chris Powers: I remember the chapter. They're all great chapters, but the chapter on expectations and when they're so high that you, I mean, that's the one that just pierced me. To my soul was high expectations when everybody, when you're holding everybody around you to high expectations, one that probably flows from the expectations you set for yourself.

However, I realised I was creating a losing game for everybody around me because they wouldn't ever meet my expectations. And the saddest part of it all was when people in my group asked me, well, what are your expectations? I couldn't even articulate them. It was just like better or higher or more. And that was about as sobering of a chapter as I've ever read.

Dean Macfarlan: It is, and you touched on a great point because, high achieving people, it's the good and bad of your personality. Your greatest strength can turn into your worst weakness at a moment's notice if not kept in check.

And it's true in our relationships. As I mentioned to you in Cloud Camp, my struggles revolve around fear, anger, and control. Those things are all just a subset of a prideful person, which I acknowledge that I am. I've been working on this for my whole life, and I'm still working on it, but high-achieving people often suffer from that disease.

It's like that, a larger view of self than they should have. And so, a healthy marriage is being willing to put the interests of others before yourself. That's a principle that is challenging to do. It's easier to say it's tough to do. And that was early on in our marriage and the life of our children; that was our family mission statement: do nothing from selfishness or empty vacancy, but in humility of mind, put others' interests before your own.

If you do that, the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guide you. And so, that is the challenge for all of us who are selfish, controlling, fearful, and angry. Hey, will that help the relationship situation right now? That's the most essential thing in my life and my life with my wife.

And so, it's a sense of personal awareness. That's why I said drawing the circle around yourself; I think it's James 6 that says something to the effect that God opposes the proud, but he gives grace to the humble. And we just got to remind ourselves of that, we, I can be very, I tell people all the time, I like, I like what I want, when I want, how I like it as much as I want, and it's just, it's selfish, and it's inconsistent, and that's going to create all kinds of problems in all of our relationships and especially marriage.

Chris Powers: Well, it's so funny—the circle around yourself. I remember when our friends told us to re-engage, and we did it. I remember the whole day leading up to that Sunday. I was like, all right. It is going to be excellent for Michael. It is going to be great for her. We're going to change all this stuff.

Then, that first chapter said that you will spend the next 16 weeks inside this circle that you draw around yourself and do not focus on that other person. And it hit me like a ton of bricks. But it was the only place to start. No other chapter matters if you can't start there.

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah, I'll get to the point. Another point is where we're going in that discussion about marriage, but I want to affirm something: there's an expression. I have Tony, and I've been leading re-engage groups. We're not currently, but we have for 14 or 15 years, and why do you do that?

Well, it helps our marriage sharing. You can't tell somebody else. The best approach for marriage is not practising it yourself and modelling it for it. So that refinement helps our marriage. But one of the things I was immediately drawn to you when we first met is that you share your junk.

Yeah, that was. I was unknown to you and me, and I am so attracted to that. I call it back up the truck, and it pings everything out because the way we heal personally and in relationships, you can't work on and heal things. You can't articulate. And you'll never hit a target that you don't understand.

So, what is the target of good human relationships? What is the target of being faithful in God's man, marriage, with friends, and at work? The idea is that you get well to share and articulate the challenges individually and as a couple and then start to take them one by one.

 I always tell The groups we lead, how do you? How do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? And that's just a funny analogy, but it's true. It just takes years to dig the holes that we do for ourselves. We all think we can escape them momentarily, but that's not the case.

Chris Powers: Every quant leap I feel like I've taken in my life, even my relationship with Jesus, all started with somebody willing to tell me something terrible they had done. All that did for me was that we especially live in a world today with social media, where everything seems like everybody else has it all together.

And so it forces us to show up with even more of a mask than we have in generations before. And to me, it's what you said, the most attractive life moving. Moments in my life weren't attending considerable conferences and being taught all this stuff. It was a conversation by a campfire where somebody said, I effed up.

Here's what's going on in my life. You immediately feel connected to that person, and it immediately makes you realize it's okay to be imperfect. I'm a sinful person.

Dean Macfarlan: Absolutely. It connects us. We all know we're a mess, so why not say it?

 Chris Powers: The most enormous mess. I should rename the podcast The Biggest Mess with Chris Powers.

Dean Macfarlan: Like many people, your mess has become your message. You share your junk, and then you say, Hey, here's how I've made some progress. And again, I'm a work in progress, but I am taking the steps forward that will make me heal. Be a better husband, father, and friend. We'll get into the work aspect more, but a big part of this is it's much more challenging to make a life than it is to make a living.

You know what I mean. There are many things we can do in the workplace. God cares about every aspect of our lives, but he's much more interested in who we are than what we do. And so, who we are is a working process. Why not tell people? Here are the things I'm challenged by.

I'm challenged. And hey, Dean, what do you think about this? Chris, here's a thought, but then, Chris, can you help me with this? You've faced this challenge. I wouldn't know you'd faced it unless you told me. All those things are essential and help us be better and more effective in our marriages.

Chris Powers: If you've made it this far, we're about to get into ten life lessons that you've talked about, but you talked about life over living. One more thing came up at Cloud Camp that landed, and we don't have to go through the whole checklist. You have made a matrix or a list of how you decide how you will spend your life.

I think I'm in a season right now where, every day, my time is being asked for by people I know well, people I don't know well, people I'll probably never see again, events, things that just—it's almost like it's overwhelming. And I told my wife the other day, I just said, I'm so overwhelmed.

And what I'll sometimes do is I'll go from doing a lot to doing nothing. And as soon as I get to doing nothing, I'm like, Oh, I got to fill this thing back up. And it's just this cycle. And part of it's the stage of my career, three young kids. It's just all that together. 

Dean Macfarlan: But sometimes survival is what you try to do to navigate the day.

Chris Powers: At the moment, I can justify just about anything as to why it's a good idea to do it. And if you look at them on a one-off basis, all of them probably are good things, but you stack them up, and you look at my month of February, where I was in town for 13 days, and all I'm doing while I'm in town is catching up, playing catch-up, and trying to be a dad.

You could share how you've made decisions today about how you will spend your time after a long career, during which you probably went through similar phases.

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah, this is important, and I will tell you I've gotten better at it, but it's still, again, trying to figure it all out.

Who has been helpful to me as my friend, Kyle Thompson? He was at Cloud Camp with us, and Kyle's the one who built, literally built, a grid, which you're referring to. Give me some credit that he deserves, but thank you. I've taken a slightly different approach; Kyle works for him, and it's incredible how he deploys himself; nobody's more organized, purposeful, and thoughtful than he is. I'm a little bit more; it's essential to understand how you're wired. The thought, the verse that informs this, is that each one should use whatever gifts he has received in the past tense, right?

Each one should use whatever gifts he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in this very form, various forms. So you got to decide, Hey, has God made me? What's my part? Well, one, what's my purpose? Once you decide how, what informs it, how God has made me, how do I want to deploy myself? And it's a long journey. And so we just run ourselves out early, which will be less valuable. And one of the things I'm focused on is I want to finish well, man; I don't want to be a pain in the butt, older man; that just, it's frustrating to people and discouraging. I wish to Chuck Colson. Do you remember that name? Chuck did a lot of amazing things. He was a gifted businessman on Reagan's cabinet and a super-talented guy. He's the guy behind the prison fellowship ministry. And that brother was running hard to the finish line, faithfully, thoughtfully loving and caring for those around them and starting unique ministries. He was an accomplished author and writer and did many exciting things. But again, if that's the goal, how I deploy myself is crucial. So, your question is, how do you decide to do that?

It's about understanding your gifts, how you're wired and how you think you can make the most significant impact in the world. I'm watching your dashboard to make sure you don't overheat. I had lunch with a friend yesterday. He's just one of my favourite people. He's a gifted, godly young man, and he and his wife are one of a kind.

We were talking about that. It's easy to overheat. You must keep your hand on the dials and monitor your relationships appropriately. And it's something out of whack. You can be free to address it. We talked about the pace of life, the tyranny, and the urgency.

What informs me about how to spend my time is that this is only for some. I want to acknowledge that upfront, but I should worship as a person of faith if I'm not sinning. Does that make sense? When I'm in Simon, I definitely am not worshipping; I'm rejecting that, but if it's not sin if it's not tangible, practical sin, then it's worship.

And so work is worship to me. And a lot of people go, you got to be kidding me. I mean, I'm getting my butt kicked. And the answer is I'm in the real estate business right now. We're getting taking a few shoes to the rear end. It's challenging, and you must rework relationships, banking relationships and your investors.

Tough things happen, and you've got to; that's where you distinguish yourself in terms of who you are. How do I navigate these challenging situations? And again, I am very imperfect, but that's the goal. So, I live with the end in mind. I watch all the gauges: my relationships with Tawny, my kids, and my beautiful seven grandkids. Am I prioritizing them appropriately?

 We mentiCloud Campat cloud camp, but Chuck's Wendall about a stud. It'sehemiah, it's called Hand Me Another Brick. I don't remember all about the book, but I remember one specific thing because it helped inform my life. Chuck said exhaust yourself to exhaustion in the workplace.

You must do your best when you walk into that door at night. And if there's one thing that my kids will remember about me, I tried to do that. My wife wanted to help me do that, be very present, and let them know they were my highest priority.

And that is the other way I make decisions. I always think I Cloud Camp if my wife calls. I'm stopping this podcast right now. I always take her call because I want her to know I am next to Christ. She's the most essential thing in my life. And that's one way you do it.

That may not be it for everybody, but it is for me. I've tried to do the same with my kids, even on my grandkids' calls. I'm going to. There's nothing so important that I can't talk to them. Because usually, and Joni. Talk about Jody. I hear from her at least three times a day, and it's a joy. It's 30 seconds, but I'm going to take that call.

It's just a touch, and I want to talk to her. And, so, a big part of how you spend your time is what you are sensitive to. And if you get whipped up in the world's worries, the seedfulness of riches and the pride of life, it will be hard to make. The wise decisions when you need to be attentive to your relationships.

Chris Powers: I imagine you would say all those things that you end up saying no to. They never really mattered at the moment. It's hard to say no. Ninety per cent of it—99 per cent of it—is probably something you could give a no to and be okay with.

Dean Macfarlan: Absolutely, and I'll give you a practical example. I've had the opportunity to serve in the leadership of two different churches.

Northwest Bible was a church where our kids were raised, and I had a tremendous experience there. I had the opportunity to serve the church as an Elder overseer shepherd for ten years. Then, a new work was started that I had the chance to be a part of, and it's become one of our community churches.

Tony and I've been there for 24 years now, and I served as an older shepherd there for 20 years. One of the things we decided as men when we were called to be elders is that we eliminated some of the things you're talking about. They are all good, not-for-profit boards and many guys are involved in their country clubs. You've got to run your business and do other things.

You're trying to be social, impactful, and mindful of those things, but they all take time, and you just got to this, which is where Kyle is so good. You have to have that grid to prioritize your time on the things that will be most important. So, I stepped out of all my unrelated things that were cool and neat but didn't need to be prioritized during this time.

My leadership of the church, the stewardship of my company, and my family were the highest priorities, and there just wasn't much left to do. 

Chris Powers: All right. Lesson number one: it's not about me. Why?

Dean Macfarlan: Well, I mean, that, that's the instruction from the Lord. He said you're broken and need me to be completed.

Everything changes once you decide to love and serve him and accept a gift he offers through a personal relationship with him and forgiveness of your sins. What you learn, the more you know about Jesus, is that he called people to himself. He aligned himself; he was the son of God and a triune deity, but he gave his life away.

One of my favourite verses is Mark 10:45. Have you heard that? The Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and give his life as a ransom for many. If the Lord of the universe was his job description, many Christians are still trying to figure out what they should do or how they should what their purpose is.

Just read that one verse and try to do that: serve people, love God, and serve his people. Tony's mission statement is pretty good; it's straightforward. That's a big part of my approach because it's not about me, which may cause me to be prone to making it all about me.

So, if I'm reminding myself, it's not. You are a participant in the most incredible opportunity the world has ever known, and that's the advancement of God's kingdom. As a follower of Christ, I get to participate in his grand plan. And the ROI is the best I've ever seen in any investment I've ever made.

Chris Powers: You're a real estate guy who has done excellent business.

Dean Macfarlan: I do like ROI.

Chris Powers: Number two, diligently practice self-leadership. 

Dean Macfarlan: Let me tell you what that means to me. The scriptures tell us to discipline ourselves for godliness. Hey, maturity doesn't happen; it is a process and a journey. And so we ought to recognize that it's not about us, but in this standpoint, we ought to be increasingly conformed to his image. So how do you do that? You discipline yourself for righteousness.

The only way you can do that is to understand what he's calling you to. So you spend time with this word and talk to friends. How do you do this? How does it work itself out in your life? So, it's a big one, the idea of disciplining yourself for that purpose. 

Chris Powers: If people don't, and you've probably come across many folks who don't have that support system around them.

What do you tell people? Like, where can they start?

Dean Macfarlan: Like you and I did, one friend. We had lunch, shared our stuff and just told somebody about ourselves. Well, I'm not comfortable doing that. I mean, I want to hear that, honestly. People wish for depth, especially nowadays.

They don't want to surface. Like, please tell me how you're doing. And if I'm not going to go out on the street and tell all my friends what you just told me, we have to respect people and honour the confidence and trust they place in us when they share something with us, and we have to be treated accordingly.

The more you can do, the faster you can heal and get to the appropriate place. And that's a perfect reminder for all of us. 

Chris Powers: I couldn't recommend it enough. If you're listening to this and there's just something you want to get off your chest, you should.

Dean Macfarlan: And I'm in a season of life right now.

Chris, I'm a senior advisor, cheerleader, and coach back in Trevor, and it's a privilege to do that. I also have other young men with whom I'm partnering within the business. I get energy from you and these guys. I love how they're living their lives. I love how they want to make a difference for the Lord and in this world, have a positive social impact, and care for others, which energises me.

So, I love spending time with those folks, and it pays rich rewards; it's a mutually encouraging and sharpening relationship. I'm not one of these guys who needs to make it; if I sit in a room, boy, everybody's got to listen to me. I've learned a lot from you and a whole lot of other people.

We get stuck when we stop learning, as we talked about earlier. We've got to continue that process of being intentional learners. 

Chris Powers: Let's use the sidebar for one second and do it. Make sure to go a little more into detail. With what you're doing, the type of entrepreneurs you're looking for to partner with and back, and your thinking about this next career phase.

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah, and thank you for going back there. Cause I forgot one thing, I wanted to mention about that. I have more time now. I am still reasonably busy. I mean, I love to work. I genuinely love it, especially if work is worship; why not? Right? So that part is easy for me. I enjoy it.

But I have a little more time to check in on people and go, Hey man, Well, the guy I had had lunch with yesterday, the way that lunch happened was about two months ago; I called him, and I go, Hey, I've just watched how you live. You've been around our family, and we have spent time together. I'd love to spend more time with you.

And I know you're, he's a very busy guy, runs his own company. And I said, I don't want to be a burden, but if there's a way I can fit into a lunch here, there, go have coffee, or I'll work out with you, whatever you want to do. I love getting to know you better and figuring out how to serve, pray, and encourage you.

Who doesn't want to hear that? He, I know I need it. And he just went, I'd be awesome. And so we had our first lunch yesterday, which came from my other friend, Beau Fournette; I tend to go, man. I need a big idea, a big, hairy audacious goal. I want to. I'd love to build another company here or there and do all that kind of stuff.

And those like, I'm not going to do that; he's a younger guy. He's just transitioned out of his role at a large hedge fund. And I said, what are you going to do? And it's like, I'm just going to, I'm just going to love God and care for people. I know. That's a great answer. My wife says that too.

And he goes, I call him. I have people in my life that I've known or not known. And he had a friend at church, and this so encouraged me. I said, well, he was that particular guy who was, I think, struggling with something and maybe had surgery. And Bo says, Hey man, he called him up, and he just said, Hey, I know your legs hurt, or I'd love to drive you around this week and spend time with you.

It's like, who does that? I mean, I'm too selfish to do that. You're just going to drive him. And that's what Bo did. And he loves people? And I thought, man, that ain't a big, hairy, audacious goal. That's just being present with people and loving them. I thought that was practical.

Chris Powers: That's awesome, but you are to some degree. If the opportunity is correct, you will back an entrepreneur to get involved in their business in some capacity.

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah, we have. Trevor's first business is called Craftwork. A couple of guys and I came around Trevor, provided some start-up capital and learned a lot.

Trevor would tell you he did. And I did, too. And, look, if you need to learn, you're going backwards, whether it's a big winner or a potential loss. But I do love spending time with young people and entrepreneurs. The next generation stimulates me and shows me how they will respond to the world they're in.

As discussed earlier, can I encourage, empower, and instil courage in them? 

Chris Powers: I hope your emails are ready. I have an unwavering commitment to hiding God's word in my heart and living and leading so that others never doubt that God's word is sufficient for every circumstance.

Dean Macfarlan: I love this one because, as we talked about, I've been walking with Christ for a long time, and I love that fact.

You have to have a blueprint. Many things will happen to you, and difficult things and navigating require tools. And so, the only way I know to appropriate those tools is to hide them in my heart. What I love is telling people, and this is hard for folks who don't have faith, or maybe I've never spent any time in the Bible, but for me, there's never been an issue I've faced.

In my 30 years of eldering and shepherding at our church, running a business that I started in 1984, my family had complex challenges with kids and grandkids. There's not one thing I've ever faced that can't be, that the wisdom of God's word can't inspire and make better. And there's just so much there for us to give us rails to run on and basic instruction before leaving Earth.

That's my wife's. She's used that with the kids she teaches, and it's so simple. And so wise, we have a tool and need to learn to use it. And so that's where that principle comes from. As a 65-year-old, my mind isn't quite as sound as it once was regarding scripture memory, and pouring that into yourself at an earlier age will always serve you. 

Chris Powers: What does the Bible say about handling a bad real estate market? I say it jokingly, but it's tough right now.

Dean Macfarlan: Yes. Look, wins and losses don't define you. They don't. I've got a good friend going through a job transition right now, and that's what I told him yesterday.

I go, Hey, this does not define you. You're a fantastic man. And you'll get through this. God has something else on the other side of this that hopefully will be as enriching as this could have been. And so, that's where that comes from: you have to have the tools. You need each other to work through the challenges that you face.

And in the real estate business, you will have some of those. And it's how you go through them. It may not necessarily be how they end. It's how you travel that road and how you treat people. Do you spike in anger? Cause you're just pissed off and frustrated. Or do you manage your emotions and respond appropriately in challenging situations?

One of the things that I'm thankful for is it was modelled for me by a mentor pastor and good friend. he runs to the fire, and I believe, as Christians, that's what we should do when there's a struggle or a challenge. A hurting person, we need to step into it and not go, Oh, somebody else has that.

It's like, Hey, how can I love and care for that person? You don't smack them with your Bible. You love them. You'd be present. You express how much you care for them. You don't have all the boxes to check and flip a scripture on. They want to see you love them. And that's spending time with them and doing small acts of service, such as cooking a meal for them, or whatever the case may be.

So, entering into the fire is, I think, an essential aspect of this 

Chris Powers: Never sacrifice family for ministry, teaching and training your Children. 

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah, that goes back to the swindle statement that he made about saving your best for when you walk in at home at night. Our journey as parents is the greatest gift and the most complex challenge. In a moment, it can change. How old are you? I am trying to remember. 

Chris Powers: Seven, four and one. So, I'm on fire right now.

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah. And my grandkids are—the youngest is eight. I think the oldest is about to be 14, Sloan, but I'm just watching everything that comes at young parents.

That's why earlier, we talked about how sometimes you must survive. It's like I can't have quiet time today. I'm just trying to keep my kids alive. There's a lot of grace and freedom in that. There are seasons for everything, but child-rearing is a full-contact sport.

As I mentioned, one of the things I'm grateful for is that my anger would get the best of me. I could use it; I called it going from zero to 60 in 1.6 seconds. You spike, and it's just inappropriate. It's wrong; my wife has a way of telling me when I'm doing that. She goes, if you could see your face, Oh, my gosh, you had no idea, and I don't even know it; I do after the fact when she shares it with me, and so I'm trying to learn how not to be quite so expressive and in the way I communicate things, but that's hard for a Scotch Irish raised person with loud parents.

Chris Powers: I'm with you, brother. I cannot fake how I feel very well, or at least not for long. It lasts a few seconds. 

Dean Macfarlan: Wear it on your sleeve. 

Chris Powers: Do my best every day and then go to bed. 

Dean Macfarlan: Within all of them. Well, they're all my favourites, but this one has had the most positive impact on my life, especially as a shepherd and elder overseer, where all the needs were met when Jesus went to sleep every day.

Did he meet every need around him? No, nor should we. You do the best you can, and you go to bed. My friend told me that probably 24 or five years ago. And it's been transformative because, as a type A overachiever, I wanted to be there for the body. I want to meet it when it has a need. I am rightly motivated. I want to serve them. I want them to succeed in their relationship with Christ, their families, and each other. There are always unmet needs and brokenness in the world. And if we think God has been again, back to number one, if we believe God needs us, we're in big trouble.

We extended ourselves even further then. And it's like the mice on the wheel: You can't win that battle. There are always more needs than you can meet. I understand that there were unmet needs then, and there are unmet needs now. So sleep, rest, and be ready to serve God and people tomorrow.

Chris Powers: Okay, real quick. You said that if you think God needs us, you're in trouble. What do you think? What's the opposite of that?

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah. I mean partnering with him in a healthy, appropriate way, acknowledging how he's made you, wanting you to use your gifts to serve others, and having a proper order. He can't wait to use that person.

I wanted to make the point that someone who's broken is yielded and ready to acknowledge their shortcomings as they love and serve others. 

Chris Powers: Got it. Train future leaders with passion and purpose.

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah. I love it, and again, it's not like I'm there to teach or train everybody. It's mutual; my investment in people has always returned ten times to me. So, it's a privilege to meet younger people and learn their stories here. How you might, your experiences encourage them, and their experiences encourage you.

 But I thrive on that. I thrive on people. My wife would go; she's more of a homebody and great with people, but that's not her first choice, whereas I usually default to a larger group, and I love being around people. I draw energy from that. And that's where that comes from.

Chris Powers: Have joy on the journey. That's easy to say. But how do you decide to have joy, or how do you have joy? 

Dean Macfarlan: It's a choice every day. It truly is. I know some people, but my wife is just wired to be joy-filled. She's just a happy spirit; part of that, that evenness and face-based thinking, gives her that peace and joy.

But there's a reason scripture in the first test says to Be joyful always. And then what comes next? Pray without ceasing. So, the best way to be joy-filled is to pray and thank God. It doesn't say to give thanks because you have cancer.

It says to give thanks because you have him to take you through having cancer. Does that make sense? And so that's what that verse means to me. There are a lot of days I don't feel joy-filled. But I have to make a choice: How am I going to navigate this situation?

I want to acknowledge the reality and pain here, but I must be joyful during this challenging moment. It's not fun to work out with a lender—it just isn't—but I can choose joy and how we navigate and not frustrate each other, man.

I'm sorry. Can I acknowledge that this is hard? I may lose part of your senior loan; this may also not turn out. I don't want you to; I want you to know that doesn't make me wrong. I'm going to do the best I can. I'm going to be above reproach. And I've done that well at times and less well at others, but it's how you navigate.

Those complicated things allow you to be someone other folks look at and go; they choose joy amid that challenge. 

Chris Powers: I want to take one sidebar off that. I am just curious about your answer, but you mentioned cancer, and somebody might say there's no real God who would ever create or allow someone to have cancer. How would you respond to that?

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah, one, to identify with their pain. You got to start there. Yeah, I feel you. I can't be you because I don't have cancer right now, but I realize the weight that this is on you. And it would help if you didn't give me tips and techniques to feel good. That's not what I'm about.

I want you to know I care about you. And I'm committed to praying for you, first and foremost, as you navigate this challenging time. So if you skip to something other than that, at first, you're missing the opportunity to be heard and to care for that person. But as the relationship evolves, and you're talking about the kinds of challenges sick people go through, whether they be physical, emotional, spiritual, in every aspect, helping remind them of the things that they maybe Know to be accurate but aren't experiencing that at the moment, or perhaps they've never known him to be true that you can navigate a challenging circumstance.

Cancer shouldn't define you; the journey of how you do cancer should, and what we don't know is what the answer God's going to give us at the end. I'll tell you a quick story. I can't remember if you've even heard about this, but my daughter, Callie and my son-in-law, Ryan Nixon, their youngest son, little Ryan, who's eight, was on a roof recently at a friend's house.

Well, he was playing on a tree with his friend and was stepping over to the roof, 12 or 14 feet high and lost his balance and fell back and fractured the back of his skull. He took the brunt of the blow. He was at the top, the bottom of his head, neck, and shoulders. It's certainly a longer story.

There were real concerns, swelling on the brain and all kinds of things that the fact his spine wasn't broken. There were multiple miracles along the way. I'll start with the first one that the dad of the young man whose house he was at was a Navy man and had. I'll spend a lifeguard.

So, new CPR just dropped off a hat and immediately ran to my grandson, who had stopped breathing and got him going again through CPR; miracle number one, miracle number two, transported him to the hospital. And, he had a seizure about the time my wife and I got there, and his parents were with him and our daughter, our daughter, Callie articulated, Hey, his eyes are not right.

And he was having. He stopped breathing, and he was having a seizure. Miracle number two, by the blessing of rapid doctors and nurses, got him going again, but we still didn't know if his spine was intact. We didn't know what the future held for the damage to his head and the fractures in the skull. There are lots more medical miracles, but I could go on. He tested out with no spinal damage. We thought there could be potential long-term challenges, and God shows the healing. The thing that's so hard is the sober awareness that many kids on the Children's floor that he was on when he was getting excellent care at Children's Hospital. Some of those kids may not get the same answer we got, and that's the mystery of God's world and how we have brokenness in it.

He came back to redeem all that. He died to redeem all that and will return to make it all disappear. He'll dry every tear. There'll be no more pain, no more hurt.

Chris Powers: All right. Number eight is living in a community with others who can help us grow and lead lives honouring God. 

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah. It is something that you, listeners, might do; how do you even get started on that? If you're a lot of, if you're a member of a church, a lot of churches have cell groups or small groups or things that you can, you can get into my life about community started right around the time we were married, my wife and I were married.

I also had some community in college, with other young men wired the same way I was. We were interested in the same things, but I needed to find out what the community was. I knew I needed other couples in my life. And so what I do, I picked up the phone, and I just called a guy, and I had become an acquaintance, and I said, Hey, I don't even know what this means, but would you all have dinner with us and, can we talk about our lives together?

And they went, sure, and so we had dinner, which led to a relationship. We kept meeting, and then we invited another couple, and we did community before I even knew what it was. It's just inviting others into your life and talking about things that matter both celebrations and hardships.

I would be thankful God put that DNA in my heart early on because I think that helped us raise our children and in our relationships, having people to pray for us amid all the things we face. I encourage people to find that as quickly as possible. It's been a tremendous blessing for Tony and me and continues to be. 

Chris Powers: I like this one recklessly. Pursue conflict resolution because if you're in business, that's what you're; often, it's overcoming conflict.

Dean Macfarlan: Life is about overcoming conflict, even with yourself. I've just watched the blessing of relationships being restored. When we break them, it's the responsibility of both parties to work through them in a God-honoring way. And so I've done this very imperfectly in my life, and I'm still learning a lot.

What this means in trying to resolve conflicts appropriately is that it's an opportunity for Christians to show the world that there's a better way rather than just continuing a war with one another, literally and figuratively. And we sure see great options or great examples of that through social media and other places.

So, this is a daily awareness that we all create conflict and what an appropriate approach to navigating that is. I've had multiple partners in my business through the years, and to this day, we separated at different times in different places with each of them. There were a total of five of them. I love talking to him now. We don't talk as much as we once did, but we managed to navigate difficult situations, such as the separation of a business partnership, and remain friends. One of the things I'm most thankful for in my career is my continued deep friendships with people with whom we had to go through some hard things together. 

Chris Powers: Okay, if I just said I'm in a terrible conflict with someone and it's all their fault, I didn't do anything, but clearly, I'm emotionally upset about it. Dean, how do I overcome this conflict? What would you tell me? 

Dean Macfarlan: Well, I would ask permission because I know you, and we have a trusting relationship. Hey, can I tell you a hard thing? Is that okay, Chris? And I'll wait for you to answer. I wouldn't just steamroller. It's like, Hey, this may not hit you just right. It may be hard to hear.

Could I share that with you? Most people who are in conflict say yes to that. There are a few, like, I don't need to hear this right now, but most people will welcome that conversation. I hope I do. It's always just like I'd love to hear something hard.

That's what makes it better. So I asked for permission, and then, in fear and trembling, I weighed into the conversation. But you said it's all the other person's fault. It's never all the other person's fault. So I told my friend, let's start by drawing a circle around yourself.

And Hey, even if you're 1 per cent of the problem, spend a hundred per cent of the time on your 1%, shockingly, it will become, I think, an increasing awareness that maybe it wasn't 1%, perhaps it was 30. Or even 40 or potentially 90, you'll grow increasing awareness over time. But if you start there and always start, if my wife can get her stuff together and get fixed, we'll be great, right?

That's how relationships work. If that guy who treated me that way in business, if he just righted the ship, begged my forgiveness, we'll be fine. No, it just doesn't work that way. So what we do is have to identify our 1%. And so we lean into the conversation rather than, Hey, it's your fault.

It's, Hey, I acknowledge. One of the conflicts in my life has been a real challenge. I may need to be more suitable. You may be right. But you may need to go down the right path. Let me articulate things he's done for me when I've been off the road.

So, we must acknowledge that we don't have all the solutions—God does. We have to recognize our deficiencies and draw the circle around ourselves. Then, we're much more helpful to other people, getting them thinking through and talking through the damage of that personal fracture.

In my role at the church, I've been a part of business mitigation and conflict resolution mitigation, and we're all about our rights and getting what we deserve. That, that selfishness, we all have been hurt, and we needed repercussions for that person. If you can think the opposite, what must I learn? Did I win this person somehow that got us here before they even made a wrong choice?

What can I own? It may be as simple as, Hey, I could be thinking better about you and how you're navigating this right now. Can I confess that to you? I don't have all the solutions, but I'd love to try and walk through this with you. Please find a way to connect and identify with them and what they're going through.

 I've done it well sometimes and made a big mess for myself and others.

Chris Powers: Yeah. I know for myself sometimes the feeling is. If I gave in or let them think that they weren't as wrong as they were, I'd lose the battle. And the quote from Re-engage was there somewhere, as if forgiving someone is releasing a prisoner and that the prisoner is yourself, not the other person.

Dean Macfarlan: That's well said; one of the ways I was taught that we used to lead trips, disciples trips to East Africa, Uganda, Rwanda, Congo, Burundi, and there's a book that was written called When Helping Hurts. And that book talks about forgiveness and, arguably, the few people in the world who have been through as much trauma as the folks who have experienced genocide.

And, that was a lot of Christians that perpetrated that, the Tutsis and the Hutus and the conflicts that arose between people. But, this is another way of saying that the point you just made is forgiveness or lack of forgiveness is like drinking poison yourself and thinking the other person's going to die.

You have to be able to extend that forgiveness to another person and not hold it. Otherwise, it'll poison you. If we hold on to a lack of forgiveness, we'll poison ourselves. And so I'm glad you brought that up. That's an excellent tool for that person amid that conflict we discussed.

That's trying to navigate it well. And then just inviting others in, when you reach an impasse, or you're stuck with, let's say to you and me if we're stuck and continue to grind the same axe. Let's invite a third party into this and start talking. And it could be one or more people who can help mutually sharpen each of us and help us find areas we can agree on.

I call it gaining little agreements. It's just like negotiating—negotiating your whole life—and a good negotiator gains little agreements that total up to a favourable negotiation. And you can't just get your way. When you want to gain agreements, you have to be able to navigate getting less than you wanted.

Often, asking for forgiveness is the bridge builder that allows you to reach the most significant agreement. It's just, Hey, I will forgive you whether this ever works out. You're forgiving. We're now good. I won't speak poorly about you or think poorly about you. But once that happens, it usually breaks the ice so two people can start talking, and if they're drawing a circle around themselves, they'll find common areas to restore the relationship.

Chris Powers: To be clear, you don't have to re-engage for your marriage to draw a circle around yourself, and you should approach life and withdraw a circle around yourself. 

Dean Macfarlan: Exactly. I could give you three examples this week with my wife, and yeah, it's just an incredible tool and way of living to say, Hey, great. What's my part in this? 

Chris Powers: Yeah. One of the most significant transformations for me was because there, I lived a lot of life with, like, I don't need anybody. I've got it all right now. I'm waking up and realizing realizing I need a lot. And it's not that it's always there every day, but I can usually get back there quickly. You just said business mitigation.

A lot of business people listen to this. You've got to sit in conflict resolution. So, to set the stage, these folks might've sued each other and used the courts but decided to go to Watermark and use elders as their quote-unquote judges, trusting that the resolution the church came up with might be.

How many of these terrible business lawsuits could be solved if they just brought in a third trusted party? You've seen so much that you like it. What's your perspective on that?

Dean Macfarlan: It would be massive if that one thing happened. Yeah. I just invited others into the conversation.

Before it gets the course, or even if it's in the courts, to try and help two people find some common ground. It would put a lot of lawyers out of work. That's sincere, and I'm glad you said what I said back to me. I said business mitigation. I meant business mediation.

And, Arguably, maybe they're the same thing, but, yeah, no. So the opportunity—again, I think this is an excellent chance for God's people—as we attempt to be the church, which exists in us and through us as we gather together and try to be faithful in all aspects of our lives in this particular situation, inviting others into the conversation helps people see their part.

Rather than trying to defend and attack, these behaviours can lead to inflammatory talk and words that hurt people and end up in the courts. And so many folks go, well, you may need to be equipped to handle this disagreement's skies and scope.

And I would make a case that maybe that's true, but I've seen two people on the other side of large-scale kinds of transactions slash challenges where they're not in agreement, and it's fracturing them the same principles apply instead if it's a, you're arguing over a comic book.

In a multi-billion dollar corporation, the principles of conflict resolution, putting the interests of others before your own, not being prideful, being grace-filled, being willing to ask for forgiveness, and owning your part can serve you despite the size or scope of the challenge or the business.

They're human issues. And just so I think about those things, I've been a part of resolutions with both Christians and non-Christians, and you don't smack them again. We don't smack them in the head with a Bible, but I might not. I'll quote a verse and not even say the address.

I was with a bunch of guys this morning. We're doing a better man study. That's a ministry that my friends just started. Barry's done a great job, and it's just a phenomenal ministry. And look, content's important; relationships are.

Or how change happens. That's where transformation occurs, and men gather, share their junk, talk through their challenges, and acknowledge the pain of the past but not let it define them for their future. And we were together this morning, which is one of the things we discussed.

Regarding some things we're speaking about, work and community, and how to choose people in your life, Proverbs, it's 1923: He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers on Holy Cow. You don't need to be a person of faith.

You don't need to know to appreciate that. If you align yourself with many stupid people making poor choices, guess what? You'll soon follow. Even if you think you'll change their behaviour, they'll drag you down rather than up.

Chris Powers: I was going to say you're an average of the five people you keep closest.

Dean Macfarlan: Exactly. 

Chris Powers: You look at somebody that's probably addicted to drugs or doing something terrible. They're probably hanging out with a bunch of drug addicts. You're not hanging out with the right people and doing stuff like that at night.

Dean Macfarlan: At my age, the fear, anger, and control we discussed are some challenges, but I love comfort. I'm embarrassed to tell you that, but I love nice things. And if my age group and my community talk about, get together, and talk about all the fun things we want to do, and there's nothing, I mean, Ecclesiastes tells us to enjoy what we have in life that we have in Christ and celebrate that, it's okay, too.

I have things and live in moderation, but if I'm focused on comfort, which drives the conversations with my peer group, a lake house or a rancher, we're in deep trouble. We miss how our lives will remain significant and purposeful for God's kingdom. And so we just got a reminder.

So I have to remind myself of that. My wife is funny. I'm the label buyer in our house, so she could ask why you are buying that. I can get you that at Target. I'm not going to the Target she doesn't look at; she never looks at the labels. Well, she looks at them.

So she only buys them the athletic stuff where that's so expensive. 

Chris Powers: Lulu Lemon. 

Dean Macfarlan: I love this stuff. Yeah, of course. I buy Lulu lemon.

Why would I do that when an athlete is about 60 per cent of the price? And it's like, Oh, you're so intelligent. 

Chris Powers: You've mentioned this one a bunch. It is the 10th remaining intentional learner. It speaks for itself.

Dean Macfarlan: It does. It's the way I'm wired. It's just fun.

I love learning about your podcast, you and Johnny, and how this happened in the last five years. I want to hear more about that. It's just so cool. I'm fascinated by the world and how it's evolved in the ways people can make money today. Some are healthy but not so healthy, but it's enjoyable.

That's fun for me. So I can take a lot of information. Now there's a downside to that; it can suck up a lot of time. You can be disconnected sometimes in relationships if you need to be present with your family and your. You're over here scrolling on some article, even if it's a good article in business or trying to improve your health and work out or something, all those things.

If you do too much of that, It can suck out the time that you need to be to devoting to other core relationships. So I'm aware of that. I can get distracted sometimes and occasionally go on a fast from my phone and the information. It's like letting your brain calm down, just putting it to rest for a minute.

So, that's the intentional learner aspect of it. Hopefully, it also defeats my pride issue. I don't have it all figured out. I need to learn, and I need to learn from my friends and other people. And so, I am intentional about continuing to do that cloud camp.

You guys showed up for 48 hours, and it was a place. It didn't stink. It was comfortable. 

Chris Powers: It was comfortable. It was good. 

Dean Macfarlan: But people will remember what we did while we were there, not how cool the spot was. It's like, what did we learn? How did we grow? What was the ID exchange? And it pays dividends. 

Chris Powers: I think the perfect way to bring it home is that it encapsulates the conversation we've had and through many of the lessons, but there was a quote, or you said it on another podcast or something that I was doing some research, but you just said, this goes back to the circle. No matter how good things are in your life, something terrible always needs to be worked on. That is what it means to be in that circle. 

Dean Macfarlan: Yeah, I mean, when it's good, be thankful and soberly aware that it may change soon. See also what we've been through with my grandson. It's like at a moment's notice. We didn't know if we were; he would make it.

We had to prepare ourselves for that possibility, and we are so thankful God restored him, and he used the doctors, too. But honestly, many things, such as how he's been healed, are not explainable, and doctors are scratching their heads over it. So we know, we know where that came from.

It was the power of prayer and the mobilization of God's people on his behalf. And by his grace, we got an answer for which we're so thankful. But again, being soberly aware of. It could change quickly, or we might have yet to get the desired answer. And we had to be faithful even in the midst of that.

And that's where the rubber meets the road in saying you want to be a Christ follower and then really trying to live in the world like one. 

Chris Powers: Especially when it's the most challenging. All right, Dean, this was awesome.

Dean Macfarlan: Man. Significant being with you. 

Chris Powers: Thank you very much. 

Dean Macfarlan: Thanks for having me.