#367 - Robert Allen - CEO @ Fort Worth Economic Development Partnership - Fort Worth, TX Is About to Explode With Growth

Chris Powers: Robert. 

Robert Allen: Chris.

Chris Powers: Thank you for coming in today. 

Robert Allen: Thanks a lot for having me. It's good to see you again. 

Chris Powers: So, listeners got to meet Robert last year. Robert is in charge of helping bring Fort Worth to the next generation. And today we're going to have a great conversation about that. But let's start with, just give me the context of your career. How did you get into kind of public service? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, absolutely. I'm a fifth generation Texan. Texas is all I know and all hopefully I will ever know. I was born and raised on the other side of the Metroplex, and so I got parents over there, which was good. It makes it very interesting in my current role, which we can talk about later. But I went to the University of Texas at Austin and I never left. I took an internship working for then Attorney General John Cornyn. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life at that phase. Some would argue I still don't know what I want to do with my life. But my parents always strongly encouraged me to take internships and try to understand maybe most importantly what you don't want to do in life versus what you want to do. So I took an internship. I ended up on the eighth floor of the Attorney General's office. For those that aren't familiar, that's kind of the executive floor. It's where the Attorney General sits and all of his executive staff. So immediately on day one, I'm like, okay, this is a big deal. I've landed in a good spot. And I started doing scheduling work, kind of logistics work for his executive assistant and travel aid and advanced people. And as anybody knows who follows politics, he went on to DC. Being young and naïve, I thought, for sure they'll take me. And it turns out, he had other more capable, qualified people that he wanted to fill his team with. That allowed me to interview for the incoming attorney general. And his name was Greg Abbott. And I interviewed for two positions, and it's an interesting story. I interviewed for the travel aid position and the advanced representative position. The travel aid position is the one everybody wants. 

Chris Powers: Why? 

Robert Allen: Because you're with the principal all the time, you're going to the events, you're riding in the motorcade, you're on the planes, you're doing all those things. You're managing the principal's daily life. Advance goes and sets up the events in advance of the principal, oftentimes by themselves, negotiating with non-principals sometimes, and you brief the principal when they show up, and then that's kind of your 30 seconds of fame. So as a young, cocky kid who didn't deserve any of it, I was like, well, I want to be the travel aid. Interviewed, they asked me what I want. I said travel aid for sure. Left, a few days go by, my phone rings, they said we want you to be an advanced rep. I said, let me think about that. And called my dad, as I recall, and I said, hey, what do you think? My dad said, hey, hang the phone up and go accept the job. And I did. That set off 12 years working for Attorney General Greg Abbott. I worked my way through, by the way, went on to become a travel aid during the 2006 reelect campaign. So I got to check that box. Ultimately finished as deputy chief of staff running that agency, which has a tremendous impact in Texas. And if you follow politics, you know he ran for governor after Governor Perry. Thankfully, he won. My wife kept asking me, what happens if he doesn't win? I said, I don't know, we'll figure that out. And he won, asked me to come along, be part of the transition team, and then deputy chief of staff for the first two years and a couple months of his administration. So that's how I got in it. And it was, to be candid, it was one of those things where we just showed up. We worked hard. We had a lot of really young people on staff. A Fort Worth native by the name of Daniel Hodge deserves a ton of credit. He was chief of staff. I was deputy chief of staff, and he was the only person that has a longer run with Abbott than I did. Very proud of that, working with him as long as I did. And by the way, along the way, kept me fresh about what was going on in Fort Worth. So in a lot of ways, it's been a full circle moment ending up in Fort Worth. But that's how I got into politics. 

Chris Powers: I'm going to- the first dumb question. I could literally rename this podcast, the Dumb Question podcast. And I should know the answer to this. What does an attorney general do? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, great question. By the way, at my office, I always tell people there are no dumb questions. So, the attorney general is the chief law enforcement officer of the state. Which sounds a little interesting, doesn't it? Because he's not in a technical policing kind of role. Defends the state against all kinds of litigation, sues, in our case, the Obama administration a lot. Back then, I remember that he used to joke with people, I go to the office, I sue the Obama administration, I go home. That was always his joke. And so really he's the chief lawyer, chief law enforcement officer for the state of Texas. Additionally, he's responsible for child support enforcement in Texas. That's a huge piece of what the Attorney General's office does. Credit to Senator Cornyn, when he was attorney general, he really put the attorney general's office on the map and really elevated the profile. Some notable names that came out of our administration would be Senator Ted Cruz, Justice Don Willett, Justice Jim Ho, Justice Andy Oldham, I could go on. Some really impressive legal minds were all lawyers young and up and coming through the Abbott years in the AG's office. So, think about your chief lawyer on behalf of agencies and citizens of the state of Texas. 

Chris Powers: Okay. And I want to talk about real quick time as Texas Economic Development Corporation. But before that, you were deputy chief of staff. What did you do in that role once he became governor? 

Robert Allen: Yeah. So, I was over at operations and logistics for the office. We structured it such that, again, Daniel Hodge, chief of staff, and then we had two deputy chiefs. 

Chris Powers: So, you reported to Daniel. 

Robert Allen: I reported to Daniel, who ultimately reported to the Governor in our case. I had a colleague, Julia Rathgeber, who was the other Deputy Chief of Staff. We shared an office together. I owe her a tremendous amount of thanks and gratitude for teaching me. She was in charge of budget and policy. And so the two of us effectively were in charge of running the organization, her on the budget and policy side and me on the ops and logistics side. But what does that mean? Think about things like the governor's mansion. That was my responsibility. Homeland security, disaster response. Old habits do die hard. I have been tracking the hurricane this morning. That would be something that would be consuming my life back then at this moment, working with Chief Nim Kidd, who runs the Texas Division of Emergency Management, now at Texas A&M. We'll have a huge presence in downtown Fort Worth now, by the way. And so, running the day to day organization, advance reported to me, travel aid reported to me. I was a liaison to the security detail, et cetera. So everything to try to keep the trains running on time and keep the governor moving in the right direction. That was really my goal. 

Chris Powers: So, when a hurricane's coming, it's like, okay, it's out in the ocean. We're kind of watching it. At what point do you actually start making moves? 

Robert Allen: Yeah. So this is a great conversation that people don't really think about. We would get weather reports off the Western coast of Africa. That, give or take, tells you 7 to 10 days before impact. So, we would look at weather patterns over there, and we would think, okay, what are the chances of that becoming a storm? Ultimately, what do the models suggest where that storm is going to go? And you start paying attention then. So, they call them invests, which meant you want to investigate it. And it would have a number associated with it. And so, I'd get these reports daily during hurricane season, and we would look at, okay, and I would call chief Kid and I would think, hey, this one looks interesting. He said, yeah, we'll keep an eye on that one. Fast forward to the Gulf. Anytime you get anything coming kind of towards Florida, you start paying attention. Gulf waters are really warm right now, and so that's one of the reasons why you're going to see, I think it's Hurricane Francine, they've named it, it's going to intensify rapidly overnight. It's going to probably turn into a Category 2 hurricane and impact in New Orleans tomorrow, give or take. That's why it's going to intensify so quickly because the Gulf right now is very warm. I'm not a meteorologist, but warm water and hurricanes, those are bad combinations. And so, we really start paying attention as it relates to Texas when we get close to that Gulf Coast because that really tells the experts, okay, we've got 24 hours, 48 hours, maybe if we're lucky 72 hours before you have to start making some pretty serious calls. 

Chris Powers: And then just tying that to when you think of hurricanes hitting Texas, you think of Houston, you think of Galveston, everything along the coast, but let's tie it back to Fort Worth or Midland or these more inland cities. Do you think about it from the perspective of other cities, or are you really just trying to protect who's going to actually get hit the hardest? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, it's a progression. You think about the coast and the coastal impacts first, and then obviously you think about that inland flooding possibility that comes with a high rain event. We've seen it in Texas time and time again. And you start with your most vulnerable and then you work your way backwards. In something like a Harvey situation where you're looking at evacuating Houston, conceptually, you’ve got to really slow down and think about what you're saying. Evacuating Houston, that is millions upon millions of people. And if you put those people on the roads, you're moving them inland and then you're moving them north. Well, they're going into communities of people that also might be affected. And so, you do have to stack those concerns, and you have to think about how do we move the most vulnerable and then how do we move people in that pathway and then ultimately how do we do our best for those that may be left behind? Because there are some who choose to not heed the warnings and get left behind, and inevitably you're going to have those phone calls. It always seems to happen at two o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning. And you have to provide life safety measures, assuming you don't further risk law enforcement, first responders in that situation. There's a period of time in the worst of worst storms where nobody goes out. And that's a tough time because you know there are people that are suffering. But that's how you do it. It's just a methodical phased approach. We have the best in the business in Chief Kid and his staff. And they get a lot of reps, just because of where we are. But you do have to think about it in a multi-layered step-by-step approach because once the clock goes, and there is a clock in the Security Operations Center, it's called the SOC, down in Austin. And that clock is D-Day moment of impact. And so that clock then relates to an extremely large spreadsheet effectively that tells the experts, we need to do this by this time, we need to do this by that time, we need to do this, have we thought about power, have we thought about ice, have we thought about water? And there's a shot clock, if you will, to progress through all the issues. 

Chris Powers: That's fascinating. Okay, Texas Economic Development Corporation. So, you were deputy chief of staff and then you took the president and CEO role. What was this? 

Robert Allen: Yeah. I knew about the organization because the governor appointed the board of directors, and it's the business attraction arm of the governor's office of economic development. So marketing, attraction efforts, domestically and globally. So we were familiar with it, certainly. The governor asked me if I would consider going to do it. When you sign up for the governor, you kind of sign up always. Service is important. And I said, sure, yes, I don't exactly know what I'm doing there, but let's go figure this out. And it's like most businesses or endeavors – when you're asked to do something, you study, you learn, you ask what has been tried, what hasn't worked in the past. You have your own thoughts, of course, on maybe things you could do differently to do better. One of the key things I wanted to do was get the business community more directly plugged into the governor. The governor's rolodex is pretty healthy. He can call anybody he wants. But I used to always tell people those are one-off conversations. I thought we had a weakness where we needed to convene a group of business leaders where we could put them in front of him or at least allow him access to a group at once and maybe discuss policy ideas, maybe ask how things are going collectively amongst different sectors. And so, we created that organization, a group, and we got together with the governor a couple of times a year at the mansion, and it was a great conversation because it was an opportunity for him to really hear directly from the business community. And again, not a one-off conversation, but more, we had a dozen to 15 CEOs around the table. And it was what's happening in banking, what's happening in logistics, what's happening in the energy sector, what's happening, you can take your pick. So that was really important to me and turned out to be very valuable. They're still using it today, which is helpful, I think, for the governor. And then maybe the most high profile things that you do is you help the governor travel domestically and globally selling Texas. You organize it, you fund it, and then you give him the platform in the bully pulpit, so to speak, to go be what he is, which is the chief salesman CEO for the state of Texas. And it was an honor to travel the world with him and put him in front of some really impressive conversations and just let him do his thing. 

Chris Powers: Okay, so as a common citizen, I would think you pick up the paper all the time and you're like Texas is killing it, everybody's coming to Texas, like we don't even have to market ourselves, like they're just coming. I'm trying to figure out the best way to ask the question. How much of that is just, now it's just an inbound thing versus if we hadn't done this marketing, that company wouldn't be here? And what does that marketing look like? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, absolutely. I'm a sports guy, so forgive me. I always talk about things in sports terminology. So really at the end of the day, Chris, it's about going on offense, raising your hand and saying, we want you here, we want good businesses here, we want you to grow here, we want good jobs for our citizens. That's it at its core function. And think back, Governor Perry deserves a ton of credit. He was kind of the first one that went out there, kind of. I mean, he was the first one that went out there as Governor of Texas and said, Texas is open for business. That was his tagline. He paid for radio ads in California. He did billboards in California. Don’t get me started on the politics of all that. That could be a different conversation with some other people. But he really started that narrative that Texas is open for business, we want to grow, and if you want to do business in Texas, we want to do business with you. So specifically on the marketing side, again, it started with radio ads and billboards, and then he would physically go to California, and he would sit down with CEOs who had footprints either in California or elsewhere and said, why aren't you in Texas? Maybe the biggest win of that era was certainly the Toyota headquarters that moved to Plano north of Dallas. That was a big one. And Jim Lentz, the CEO, was on my board at TxEDC, so we talked a lot about how that all went down. But it starts at its core function of just raising the hand and saying, we want to have a conversation about why you're not in Texas. And then going on offense and following that up with, what can we do for you? What do you need to make this happen? And then fast forward to where we are today, it's not taking your foot off the gas. Guilty as charged, I'm a longhorn, I bleed orange, all gas, no brakes. I get this question a lot. It's, could we just ride it out? Sure. Sure. We won't keep winning as much as we've been winning. But yeah, we could just sit back and pat ourselves on the back and say, great job. That doesn't help my two young children when they get to a working age. Those are really two key things that push me to try to do better, to create more jobs so that when they're at that working age, they've got an opportunity in Texas. I started with, again, being a fifth generation Texan. They're sixth generation. I hope to keep this going. And I hope they see that as something that is prideful to them as well. So again, just saying, I'm here, coach, put me in the game, let me go to work is where it starts. 

Chris Powers: Okay. The point of this is to really start drilling into Fort Worth, but I want to ask one more question, and we can pick a company, or we don't even have to name it. But when I think of like, and I don't know if you worked on these deals, Apple, Tesla, I think Samsung's doing like an $18 billion factory. Does Elon just come to Texas and he's like, I want to be here, and I would imagine like it's all hands on deck, do everything you can to make it happen, or is that five years in the making, and then all of a sudden, it happens? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, it depends. It's case by case. They're all different. Again, the governor is in charge of the eighth largest economy on the globe. 

Chris Powers: Texas is the eighth largest. 

Robert Allen: Eighth largest economy in the world. Maybe seventh. There's some new numbers out there that suggest that it may be seventh. I'll stick with what I know, which is eighth. 

Chris Powers: We'll call it eighth today. 

Robert Allen: If it were its own country, again, different conversation. But that's where it stacks up. So yeah, let's go. When the governor shows up somewhere from the state of Texas, it’s a big deal. So, it depends on the deal, but in some cases, for example, twice I was with the governor when he went to Davos World Economic Forum. The first time we went, he was the only governor there, as I recall. I think there were a handful more maybe the second time he was there. The ability to have conversations in that tight knit of an area with that level of CEO, you don't go down the hall without running into the who's who of CEOs. Jamie Dimon's doing his CNBC from there. I mean, it's a big deal. So some of those conversations start in areas like that. Some start with just a simple phone call. And it could be either way. It could be, in your case, Elon Musk, hey, governor, I want to talk to you about something I've been thinking about. Could be the governor practically reaching out, hey, maybe we have a mutual connection who makes an introduction. It all depends. They all take different shapes. What is pretty consistent is something you said, which is once that gets serious, it's all hands-on deck. The governor's going to turn to his trusted leadership and he's going to say, okay, we got a shot, let's go, here's what we got to do, here's what we need, and here's the timetable to do it. You mentioned Apple in Austin, that's one that comes to mind, that was a big deal when we were there. And those deals, sometimes they can start nice and easy and smooth. And then, you get to the goal line, and then like a lawyer raises their hand and says, what about this? And you're like, ah, whoops. Okay. We didn't think about tying that up. These things can get derailed by any number of issues or reasons. So it's all hands on deck. It's as hard as you can go for as quickly as you can do it. Specifically on Apple, I remember Brian Daniels deserves credit. He was running the governor's economic development and tourism office at the time. It's two o'clock, three o'clock in the morning, and he's on the phone with lawyers, and we're negotiating back and forth. I mean, we're on the goal line of an announcement. So, it goes until the end in a lot of occasions. But it all starts in my opinion with making sure that leaders are in positions to start and continue conversations and ultimately close those conversations. And there's a number of ways you can do that. But again, it starts with raising your hand and saying, I want to go on offense, and we want to win. 

Chris Powers: That is a perfect segue into what you're doing now. So maybe we can set the tone of what are you doing now? And then where has Fort Worth been? And I'm not going to paint a dark picture that it just hasn't gone like maybe other cities in Texas, but we have a lot of room to grow and make up some distance that we've lost between some of the competitors. But let's start with why you came to Fort Worth and like what you're doing because now we're on offense. 

Robert Allen: Yeah, that's right. Again, I had really enjoyed my role at TxEDC. It was great. I kind of built a team and an apparatus that was a well-oiled machine, which I'm finding I like to create and build things. Or as my wife would tell you, I like to run towards chaos. And so, when my phone rang and I answered it, I was looking, admittedly, I was kind of thinking what would be the next step in my life, and again, it was a well-oiled machine. So I felt like it was a good time to maybe think about and have a couple conversations with some mentors and just start the dialogue. And somebody in Fort Worth called me and said, they didn't, to my knowledge, they didn't know I was looking. They asked if I would visit with a group of business leaders and give a candid assessment of where Fort Worth was. I can now tell you that that phone call was Mike Berry. And so, I said yes, as long as we do it at an undisclosed location somewhere because if my boss finds out, they're going to think I'm up to something, funny in hindsight. But we had a very frank, honest, good dialogue and conversation about Fort Worth. And my feedback at the time was, I don't think Fort Worth has been as aggressive as it could be. I don't think Fort Worth has been as strategic in going on offense as I think it could be. And I will tell you, as I was leaving the conversation, I don't know if there was a question that prompted it, I don't recall that, but it was something kind of like final thoughts, Robert, and I said, you're two of the three letters in DFW. You should act like it. That's what I said. And I remember getting in the car, calling my wife, a consistent theme, she's amazing and a rock for me in a lot of tough situations And I called Rachel, and she said, how’d it go? I said, well, I think I just ruined relationships with a lot of very important people in Fort Worth. What did you say? And I said, I said, you're two of the three letters of the metroplex, you should act like it. And in typical Rachel fashion, she's like, well, do you believe that? I said, yes, I do. Absolutely, I do. So that led to an ongoing conversation that took several months. And ultimately, the conversation led my family to say, let's move to Fort Worth. As somebody who was born and raised in Dallas, I've always known about Fort Worth, spent a lot of time in Fort Worth, a lot of really, really good friends grew up here. And so I spent a lot of time here. And I'm very familiar with the banter. I'm very familiar with the back and forth of the two. But I had an opportunity to look statewide at cities that I thought had growth potential left, and the biggest with great leadership, great bones, great culture was Fort Worth. Hands down. I mean, in my opinion, it's not even close. I would say that if I wasn't here. What I felt like was lacking, again, was some offensive maneuvers and aggressiveness to try to say, we've been tremendous on the population growth side, now we need to back that up with the business growth side. At the end of the day, I thought it would be a wonderful place for my family. It's turned out to be a wonderful place for my family. At the end of the day, as you know, you're a dad, you're a husband, you get it. That's the most important thing to me. If I can be in an environment where my kids have an opportunity to grow, my wife has an opportunity to grow, sure, I'll do what I do, but that's most important. So, Fort Worth has been phenomenal in that respect, and we're just getting started. 

Chris Powers: This is an incredible place, and I couldn't share your passion anymore. And everything you said, so much potential, such great people, such great leadership. It's just a cool place. People like it. It's got that vibe. And for everybody listening in Dallas, I love Dallas. We're like grateful that you're next door. I'm not part of the like, don't Dallas my Fort Worth. But I agree. I'm going to start telling people that. We need to put two letters- we need to act like the two letters in DFW. 

Robert Allen: I will tell you, as a longhorn, people give me a lot of grief, my Aggie friends give me a lot of grief. And I always say it this way. Texas is not what it is without Texas A&M and vice versa. Those two powerhouses in the state of Texas help each other. Dallas is not what it is without Fort Worth and vice versa. I firmly believe that. There's a reason why it's called the Metroplex. And there's a reason why it's the best in Texas. So just so we're clear about that, 100%, Fort Worth would look a lot different without its partner to the east and we would look a lot different without- vice versa. 

Chris Powers: Okay. Will you clarify what is the Fort Worth Economic Development Partnership and how is that different from other non-profit entities that sound similar? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, absolutely. Previous to my arrival, business attraction and recruitment for Fort Worth lived at the Fort Worth Chamber. That was their role and responsibility. The leaders that I talked about earlier, Mike Berry being one of them, really started benchmarking themselves, and I learned this after our conversation, started benchmarking themselves against other successful communities to say, well, what are they doing that we're not? How can we get better? And one of the outcomes of that conversation was other cities had standalone organizations that were in charge of nothing but business attraction and recruitment. So let's be very clear, so that they don't get complicated or lose sight of what their priority is or was. And so, ultimately, the business leadership made a decision to create a 501(c)(6). So that's what we are, we're 501(c)(6), hired me and said, go put a team together that does business attraction and recruitment. We work very closely with all of our partners, Fort Worth Chamber, Hispanic Chamber, Metropolitan Black Chamber, Downtown Fort Worth, I mean, it takes a village. Our mission and goal is business attraction and recruitment for Fort Worth and our surrounding regions. We're not geographically limited, so I get that question a lot. We're not defined to just the city of Fort Worth. We have great practitioners, by the way, in other cities and counties. We work very closely with all of them. And maybe most importantly, we can't do what we do without the City of Fort Worth's economic development team. The way we describe it to people, Chris, we start the conversations and we work with our partners to close them. Because at some point in there, there's going to be conversations about permitting and incentives and all those things, which we can talk about later. But none of those conversations can happen if we don't start. So that's really legally who we are, 501(c)(6), independent board of directors, chaired by Mike Berry, vice chair Marianne Auld, and some really impressive CEOs of some of the largest employers in Fort Worth, which is huge for us. 

Chris Powers: You've got murderers’ row. I'm reading the names of- This is about as impressive as I've ever seen. 

Robert Allen: What's important about that is third party validation in our business is key. If I start a conversation with you about a potential business venture, you're going to probably go do your homework. The first thing you’re going to do is go look at my board and you're going to say, well, is the business community engaged? This was something I learned when I worked statewide at TxEDC, upping the game from the board perspective. Thankfully, we have yeses from some really impressive executives in Fort Worth. And they've been phenomenal in giving me advice and counsel and letting me bounce things off of them and also stepping up to support us. But that's where it starts. You've got to have leadership that says, we're in it. And we're willing to engage and do the hard work and roll up the sleeves. So again, at the end of the day, our job is to try to start conversations that we think could lead to jobs in Fort Worth and our surrounding region and then move on to the next target. 

Chris Powers: Okay, so day one was plus or minus 18 months ago for you. 

Robert Allen: Plus or minus 18 months. 

Chris Powers: What did day one look like? So let's talk about offense. There's only so many hours in a day, so maybe that's changed now we're at month 18, but what was like these are the key priorities day one? And yeah, what'd you focus on? 

Robert Allen: Well, I'm employee number one at this point. So, village of one. And then I inherited an employee from the chamber who was doing economic development by the name of Sara Thurber. Sara deserves a ton of credit for saying, sure, I'll come over and no idea who you are, but let's go to work. Thank you, Sara. Sara bridged that gap and she deserves the credit absolutely for that. Immediately in any new endeavor, you go in and you ask yourself, what has been done? What's the history? I'm a big history guy. I think it's important to understand context of why we are where we are as a community, how did we get here, and then start thinking about what are some quick things that I need to do to build the team, build the resources, and then ultimately start putting the strategy together that you can then go to actually work off of. Priority number one was, what does a team look like? How much is it going to cost to do this? Can we raise that kind of money? Then most importantly, what's in the pipeline? Why is it there? Can we get more thoughtful about what we're working on? We have extremely limited resources. And so one of the first things I started doing was thinking what my first hire would look like. And again, Sara was gracious enough to come over. So, boom, I've got Sara. Then it's, okay, your first hire is going to really send a signal, your first big move. I stole somebody from the other side of the Metroplex, 18 year career at DRC. They do it about as good as anybody. And Jessica came over as my executive VP number two, and it's been amazing since. She's been there about 12 months now. She helped me with strategy and tactics and… because right out of the gates, it was clear we had to go on offense as quickly as we possibly could. And there's some ways to do that without spending a lot of money. And then I will say something that Sara and Jessica did that, again, doesn't show up in the box score, but it's critically important was, how are we categorizing projects today? How do you define a project? Is it really an inquiry, not a project?  

Chris Powers: What’s the difference? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, so the difference is an inquiry is a phone call or an email. Hey, I'm interested in Fort Worth. That's not a project, that's an inquiry. We need to have two touch points with someone and some exchange of information before we categorize it as a project. So again, how are we communicating this to Fort Worthians? Are we being honest about what's in our pipeline? So that was immediate, how do we define these things? How do we count them? What's real, what's not? And then it was, how do we grade these things? Data is everywhere these days, everybody wants data. So for us, it was, if we go to an investor, can we back up this pipeline with data? They built a project tracking matrix which scored projects based on key parameters, wages, CapEx, is it in a targeted industry, does it have environmental concerns? Ultimately, it kicks out, really revolutionary here, by the way, stick with me, green light, yellow light, red light. Green light, all gas, no brakes. Yellow light, something may be off, maybe we need to ask another question. Red light, probably not worth our time. And I thought it was important for us to start saying no when it was important to say no. And so those are early things that we did as a team to really start to say, we can get more thoughtful about this. And I'm not going to go out in the community and say I'm working 300 projects when I'm only working maybe 30 or less. Maybe 300 people have sent us an email or called us, but those aren't projects. So, it's important in those early stages to set the stage for how we're going to define things and quantify things. 

Chris Powers: Okay. Did you think at all about like which industries would matter? Or were you kind of agnostic? 

Robert Allen: No. I mean, so when we came in, there was a strategic study and plan that had been done in 2017 by the city staff that was updated in 2022. It's good. So we said, why do we need to reinvent the wheel, especially right out of the gate? I mean, I'm knee deep with lawyers trying to figure out legal issues and trying to get this thing stood up and bylaws, those things you do in the early days. And that other thing about raising money. So, we looked at the strategic plan, we looked at the targeted industries, and we said, yeah, these make sense, these are good. Now there's some subcategories there that maybe we'll clean up down the road, but no need to reinvent this wheel. So we adopted, there were roughly six, if I recall, one of those is a cultural bucket. We think VISIT and some others do a great job there. So, we said, these other five are really going to be our keys, aerospace, defense, mobility, energy, corporate, we call them anchors and innovators, so HQs and higher education institutions, your key things you would think about. So we said, this makes sense for now. We're on board, we're going to start targeting these sectors, and we're going to go to work with this focus of things that come to us. If it falls in those sectors, then obviously, it gets elevated on our to-do list, and we go to work. Then the Holy Grail goal here is to generate conversations offensively, proactively. We are transitioning to that now, which is great. We do have our first target list of 100 targets that we are going to begin working with our key partners. That was very important for me to try to get that done quickly. And we're going to go on offense later this year and early next year and start trying to get some wins across the board. 

Chris Powers: And of those 100 companies, would most of them pick up the phone and be like, yeah, we know about Fort Worth, we've thought about it, or will some of them be like, where's Fort Worth? 

Robert Allen: I think some may say, where's Fort Worth? Or Fort Worth, isn't Fort Worth next to Dallas? Which we'll hear a lot. And we would say, yes, it is. And let us tell you why we're different. But I won't be surprised if some are like, remind me where Fort Worth is. And I think that's an issue too that we've got to talk about. We've got to make sure, as this population boom is occurring and we're getting all of this good press and publicity about all the great things that are happening, we need to use that as a ‘this is Fort Worth’ because you never know where that goes. 

Chris Powers: And this is perfect because there's going to be a lot of business leaders listening to this podcast, especially from Fort Worth. And I think one of the things that I've picked up on over time prior to you coming is the issue is like we didn't really have an identity. It was like we're where the West was won, but we also want to be business, but we also want to be honky-tonk. If I was sitting with you and I said, cool, who is Fort Worth, and for the folks listening to this, this is how you can talk about Fort Worth going forward, like who is Fort Worth to you? How are we presenting ourself to the rest of the world now? 

Robert Allen: Fort Worth is authentic, it is genuine, it has culture, it is a large city where you can still make a difference. Those are some, I think, identifying factors that we all ought to be really, really proud of in Fort Worth. You mentioned kind of the heritage side and the taglines. There's a lot of them out there. My goal as we move forward through this process is that, sure, there'll be taglines forever. And some of them can be very impactful. But let's not lose sight of what the ultimate tagline is. That's Fort Worth. Period. Full stop. Fort Worth is what it is. It's not Dallas Fort Worth. It's not Arlington Fort Worth, Crowley. It's Fort Worth. Zero disrespect to those other communities because without them, obviously, we're not as powerful as we are. But Fort Worth, at the end of the day, is the holy grail that we are trying to sell and everything that encompasses that. And I go back to, in my first six months, I took any meeting I could get my hands on with people to try to understand what makes this place so special. I had my own personal beliefs, and I would ask them at the end of my conversation, usually, define Fort Worth in three words for me. And that was a hard exercise for some people, by the way. 

Chris Powers Don't put me on the spot. 

Robert Allen: Yeah, there you go. Maybe we should ask you to define it in three words. I'll give you a minute to think about it. But the takeaway, I kept hearing authentic, I kept hearing genuine, I kept hearing big city, small town feel. So those were things that I really started to dig into from a marketing perspective. And I said, well, what makes this place authentic? Well, Fort Worth is a city where if you shake somebody's hand and tell them you're going to do it, you do it. It's also a city where you don't necessarily wait for the cavalry to come rescue you. You pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you get it done yourself. It's gritty. It's hard work and determination. And I think in 2024, those are things that are starting to resonate with CEOs more and more. They're looking for a workforce that's maverick in some ways, that's independent, that's not afraid to take a chance. We're still in this post-COVID world where workforce is not sure whether they want to come back or not. 

Chris Powers: CEOs are becoming pretty sure. 

Robert Allen: They are, yes, they are. But the workforce is still a little… they like a little flexibility. I would argue a little flexibility is a good thing. It keeps people sane. But you want folks who want to wake up in the morning and go to work for something that's bigger than themselves. And in Fort Worth, I think you can achieve that. You're part of a greater good. You're part of a bigger movement. And it's a place that, again, is very authentic. It's very real. And the cultural richness that is here is, I mean, you are hard pressed to find other communities of our size that have that. 

Chris Powers: So that checks the like my employees are going to be happy here box. We can get a little more granular. But now they're going to- Let’s just role play. I'm the CEO, and I go, cool, my team, my employee base is going to love being there. It's authentic, it's genuine, it's a cool place to live. What do you have to offer me from a business perspective? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, generally lower cost of doing business. We are still a lower cost alternative to a lot of our competition, which is helpful. We can't sugar coat the importance of Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport. You can get anywhere in the country in 24 hours or less, excuse me, anywhere in the country in a day or less. So you can go to either coast and get back, you'll probably miss an early dinner, but you're going to sleep in your own bed. Anywhere in the world in 24 hours or less, most cases nonstop. That, from a connectivity perspective and a business side, is huge. You still have the opportunity to build something in Fort Worth because of our available land, because of our size, because of our growth trajectory. So when you're talking about a strength we have, advanced manufacturing, we are phenomenal at it. We built some really, really great things here. You still can do that here at a lower cost while your employees are happy, while you have an unbelievable quality of life that goes with all of those things, and you can be a big deal. And we find that that resonates. There is certainly something to be said for that FOMO that comes up. Hey, well, if so-and-so went to Fort Worth, maybe we need to look at it. Or a lot of people ask me about Rivian. I'm just going to bring it up proactively. I think Rivian, in hindsight, I would think they would wish that they had come for sure. Georgia, their experience in Georgia has not exactly been smooth and it's been categorized in the headline. I'm not breaking news there. It's been all over the press. But I'll tell you what it did in my opinion for folks in Fort Worth. It made them realize, okay, where are our strengths? Where are our weaknesses? Getting a deal done of that magnitude and size requires a lot of pieces. And I think that really helps people think through where are we still a little bit behind? And then when we see an opportunity, we go all in and we go get it. And that creates that buzz in the CEO world of what's going on over there? Maybe I need to go have a conversation. I knew it was a great place for Western heritage, but I didn't know it was a great place for business. And that's what we want the narrative to be. It's a great place for business. 

Chris Powers: And when you say go all in and get it, I imagine, and again, educate me here, there's a finite pool of resources that you have. Money you can give, credits you can give. You can't just create them out of pixie dust. So, from your perspective, what are you doing with those finite pool of resources that someone not as qualified as you, or if tomorrow is my first job and I knew nothing, like what are the levers you pull outside of just your finite pool of resources? Is that introducing them to your board, who's basically the CEO of every big company in the world? I could read through them later. Maybe we'll put them in the show notes. But how do you kind of like go all in with a finite pool of resources? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, definitely starts there. And it's not only that list, but it's anybody that they want to talk to in Fort Worth. I tell people, my job is to tell you how great it is, you should discount that. What you shouldn't discount is what Greg Ulmer says at Lockheed Martin or what Lisa Atherton says at Bell. If you want to build something here, you should go talk to the CEOs and their teams that are doing it. Let them tell you why they continue to operate here. It's about working with our partners at City Hall. Can we improve permitting? Can we improve a timeline? Can we think creatively about an incentive? It's about connecting them with our education partners. This is really important. The workforce pipeline and talent is issue number one, two, and sometimes three on their list of needs. It doesn't matter how quickly you can build a building. If you can't put the right people in it for them, you just have a really pretty building. And so the education partners, and we have some phenomenal ones in Fort Worth, don't get enough credit in my opinion. We're going to try to publicize them more as we move forward, so they do. And had some great announcements in that arena. The ability to put them in front of these sometimes directors of HR, CEOs, CFOs, et cetera, and commit to them, we can deliver your workforce today, we can deliver it in two years, three years, five, ten years and have them confident that that can be done, that's huge. So those are the types of connections and conversations outside of your traditional incentive buckets or whatever the case may be where you can really start to move the needle with companies and get them confident that they're making a good decision in locating in Fort Worth.

Chris Powers: And I'm assuming, no surprise here, but just looking we have BNSF, we have American Airlines, they're not on here, but we have Lockheed. We have aerospace galore, Bell, helicopter. From your perspective- Oh, we do have Lockheed, sorry, Greg Ulmer. My apologies, Greg, if you're listening to this. From your perspective, is low-hanging fruit like, hey, let's go find other businesses that mesh well within who's already here and planted? 

Robert Allen: Absolutely. Absolutely. The first goal, again, as we talked about, was looking at the sectors and industries that Fort Worth was already targeting. And then the immediate question is, who is in this industry or sector that's not here? Convenient if they're doing business with one of our major employers. Convenient if we can introduce and have a conversation about why you aren't here. Convenient if you're operating in a high tax environment. Look at GE on-wing support, something that was announced recently. That's an expansion of a local facility that's already here. 3.5 acres are taken down next to there, 100 plus jobs, great salaries. They were already here. They wanted to grow that footprint in the aerospace sector. They do a ton of work at DFW, as you might imagine. That's great. That's fantastic. That's what we want. So when you think about going on offense, yeah, you want to think about low-hanging fruit. Absolutely, you do. The conversations can start at a more advanced stage, which certainly is helpful for us. And your army of proponents grows. It's not just me. Now I can call Greg, I can call Lisa, I can call anybody on my list, and I can say I need your help, because this benefits you, this benefits us, benefits the region, and that's ultimately at the end of the day how you start having critical mass.

Chris Powers: Okay, and I think you've touched on this, I cheated a bit and I texted Mike and I said what can I ask him, and he just said I think it'd be important to talk about how we're strengthening our labor story here in town.

Robert Allen: A 100%. 

Chris Powers That people will say you're a bedroom community, 60% residential, 40% commercial. 

Robert Allen: Maybe worse, by the way. Those numbers, I've seen a new stat that it's getting closer to 70-30. 

Chris Powers: Yeah, it is. So how do you flip that? And we probably touched on it in different ways, but how are we going to work on that? And I know that's not your job specifically, but you’ve got to be able to sell that vision. I know Mayor Mattie Parker is working hard on it. 

Robert Allen: 100%. It starts with being honest about where we are and not being afraid to put the facts on the table. The numbers are what the numbers are. 

Chris Powers: And real quick, what would be the right blend? Like 30-70 the other way or 40-60? 

Robert Allen: I'm going to start with 50-50. 

Chris Powers: Okay, 50-50 is a goal. 

Robert Allen: I don't know, you'd have to go interview the economists and ask them, okay, what's the perfect blend? But I'd like to just get to 50-50. Now, this is where the honesty and transparency of Robert Allen comes full force. Going from what some are suggesting is closer to 70-30 to 50-50 will take billions of dollars of new investment in Fort Worth. It doesn't scare me. I recognize that's what it's going to take. We just have to be honest about what it's going to take. You start chipping away at it. You start hitting a couple of singles. I do think an Achilles heel of economic development professionals in my business is they always swing for the fence. Everybody wants that Apple or everybody wants that Tesla because you've seen what it's done in the communities where they've gone to. So do I, but I'm happy to put runners on base and move them around. I was telling you in some of the notes, a key thing I believe in is playing small ball well. I don't think you can play big ball if you can't play small ball. And what that really means is pay attention to the details, do little things well, and then progress on to trying to do bigger things. And so you start chipping away at it. You start hitting a couple singles. You start, maybe you get lucky, you hit a double. We've got some really good projects in the pipeline right now that are close to the goal line of announcement that would be doubles and triples. And that's great because those are runners that are advancing quickly. But that's how it starts. I will also be very clear in telling your listeners, this is going to take a long time. This is a marathon, not a sprint. 

Chris Powers: And what's a long time, 20 years, 10 years? 

Robert Allen: I think five years to start to see a strategy that really pays off. You'll start to see some things I think, and hopefully project wins that you like. But this is a decade plus long endeavor to start to close that gap. I mean, it's going to take a while. But you're going to start to see things in year three through five where you're going to say, oh, okay, that makes sense. If things go well over the course of the next couple weeks, you're going to have two really nice aerospace announcements that are going to come out of our work. 

Chris Powers: You're more than welcome to use this podcast to break new… 

Robert Allen: Perfect. Perfect. I would love nothing more than to be back here to do it. We're very close. And again, they're aerospace related projects. They're right. They're brand names. They're what we want, right down the wheelhouse, healthy CapEx, good jobs. I mean, you're checking all the boxes. And that, again, begins to build bigger momentum that ultimately leads to hopefully a home run or a grand slam if you're lucky. Most people, you get one or two of those in your career. Now being at the state, I got to see a lot of them. I'm certainly looking for my first one in Fort Worth and excited to do it. 

Chris Powers: Do you get to work with the state? 

Robert Allen: We do. 

Chris Powers: So, they're sending you leads? Or they now look at Fort Worth differently going, okay, we're going to take them more seriously now then maybe we did before, one, because of your history there, but two, because you're on the offense?

Robert Allen: I hope they do. I like to think they do, and I would like to think that they know they've got a real operator here who's going to be 100% customer service driven and shoot them straight. Again, hey guys, not a good foot for us. We're going to decline this one. So we do work with the state. We get a lot of leads from the state, very healthy pipeline. Speaking of leads, one of our desires is to grow our company direct leads, our consultant direct leads. And what that means is not being as reliant on the state and going direct to company, going direct to consultants. Depending on who you listen to or believe, consultants sometimes control, they would tell you maybe 40%. I've heard maybe upwards of 50% of all projects. I'd tell you it maybe is closer to 30% to 40%, but split the difference, 40%. 

Chris Powers: What are these consultants called? 

Robert Allen: So, these are site selection consultants. 

Chris Powers: So, they work at like CBRE and the big ones? 

Robert Allen: That's right. That's right. And then there's some smaller shops that are great that we work with. And some large companies have consultants in-house. It can look like a lot of different things, but there's a trade association called Site Selectors Guild that is a makeup of a lot of the key players in this space. We have gone proactive, partnering, sponsoring, showing up, Fort Worth is here, we're ready to do deals with you. And so again, it starts with raising your hand, going on offense, and saying you want to do it and you want to work hard and you want to get them across the finish line. We want to grow those direct pipelines to get those leads. That's really what we want. And we want to see those leads before obviously our competition does. Because there's a lot of competition out there, especially in the Metroplex. And so, we want to get first look, obviously we would like to get the only look, and then we would like to take off with it, run with it, get it across before anybody else ever knew it was a project. 

Chris Powers: Okay. So, If I asked you, I'm kind of just going off things I hear, but I know you're getting asked this question. You mentioned DFW, and I know like even proximity to DFW, if you're within like five minutes, it could be a lot. Say I love DFW, but if I were to go North Dallas or Alliance, there's already all these mega corporate with corporate jobs. Why would I take 300,000 feet downtown Fort Worth separated? You obviously need the first domino to fall. And if you go back a decade, we used to have D.R. Horton, Chesapeake, Pier One, Radio Shack, I mean, it was full. How do we do that? How do we get that first domino? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, it's a great question. And it is a question I get a lot, as you might imagine. I think it's a couple of things. I think one, it's a recognition of what's happening in the marketplace. It was just a conversation that ULI hosted last week, and their economists were talking about what we're seeing. And you've heard this before with some of your guests. I think Elaine talked about this in her podcast, flight to quality. Steve Van Amburgh said it in one of your previous episodes. 

Chris Powers: You've been studying. 

Robert Allen: I've been doing some homework. Flight to quality. So it starts with doing your homework. They're willing to take down maybe less square footage as long as it's A or triple or double A. And so again, I think for us, it's about identifying the right target, sorting through it first. Is it real? Is it not? Then it's about your willingness to do a smaller deal. Maybe you're okay with 25,000 square feet, and you're not only holding out for 100,000. C, if you will, or 0.3 would be on that target list that I've talked about before of 100 companies, we definitely have a few in there that we think could be office prospects. That's a conversation that you want to have that's very different than an advanced manufacturing conversation. There are still businesses that want to be in core CBD. Absolutely, there are. It's about finding them. It's about starting the conversations with them, and it's about making sure that we're very honest about what we have, what we can provide for them, and why they want to do it. But let's also be very honest about what's happening in core CBDs in large cities in the United States. There is this movement afoot of what else is out there. So we have to be cognizant of that. I look at vacancy rates as often as I can get my hands on them. Fort Worth is in a pretty enviable position, frankly, from a vacancy rate perspective. Any vacancy is not good, but when you compare ourselves to other large urban cities, our rates are lower than a lot of other large cities in the United States. So as you go through challenging economic times, I do find people, sometimes it's easier to say, well, we're not winning. Why not? As opposed to, well, hold on a second, let's look at what we currently are sitting on. Let's make sure we do our best to protect that, what we've got, and then let's go try to backfill it. And let's try to put some people in some offices downtown and then start moving forward. It starts with honesty, starts with transparency about what's happening and being aware of that. Office deals are hard to find right now, very tough. But that doesn't mean it's impossible. And so, when we have those conversations with people, it’s just being transparent about what we've got. We've got a lot of good product, a lot of people that want to do a deal, so that's helpful. But it is a tough office market as we speak. 

Chris Powers: How much, not that you depend on it, but how much do you hope that like there's a Fort Worth company here that goes from 10 people to 10,000? And I imagine like Dell, what Dell was to Austin, or you really trace back the growth of these cities. And often it was like two companies that became the hometown heroes. I’m not saying we don't have hometown heroes in Fort Worth. But how much from your perspective would a company really breaking out and becoming a behemoth just help the overall ecosystem? 

Robert Allen: It'd be huge for a couple of reasons. Number one, I'm on record saying, I would rather grow the next Fortune 500 in Fort Worth than go steal one. Now I'll steal it. Don't get me wrong. 

Chris Powers: We will steal you. 

Robert Allen: If somebody comes to me and wants to move a Fortune 500 HQ, game on. Building one would be really cool. And it's happened before in Fort Worth. Alcon, perfect example. Lockheed Martin, perfect example. American Airlines, which some people are surprised to learn is headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas. They're close to the boundary, but it's Fort Worth, Texas. We've done this before. Radio Shack, Tandy, we talked about some of those other ones. Some of them, I would argue, we took our eye off the ball. Some were acquisitions, that happens in business. That's why you have to diversify your industry and your economy, so you can survive that kind of business churn. I would love to grow one here. I would love to see one explode and become the next darling of the business world. Again, I think it speaks beautifully to what's capable in Fort Worth, that maverick pioneering spirit. We talk about it all the time. You can do anything you want in Fort Worth, Texas. And I think that resonates more with CEOs that may be sniffing around the edges than I gave a boatload of money and incentives to a company to move from X to Y. 

Chris Powers: For sure. And if somebody is listening to this that has a growing business, 50, 100 employees, where do they go? Because I think most people are just kind of heads down learning about their business. They probably don't even know there's more options to be thinking on grander scale, or I could get incentives for my business. Where would you point them? Is that too blanket of a question, or where do they go? 

Robert Allen: It's a simple answer. Fort Worth Economic Development Partnership. Boom. Call me, call the team, we'll have a conversation, we'll bring in our partners, we'll sit down, we ask what you want to achieve, what you need, and we're very honest. We’ll say, look, that may be a bridge too far, but have you thought about this? It starts with a conversation. 

Chris Powers: Real quick, how much does like, there's a federal election coming up, you kind of mentioned earlier that you were suing the Obama administration. I guess my question is, how much will like this presidential election really impact what, not just Fort Worth, any city can do at a local level? Is it pretty distanced from each other or is it more connected than we think? 

Robert Allen: I think it's a little bit more connected than you maybe think in this sense. When companies are looking at large expenditures, as you get 12 months or so out from a presidential election, they're starting to ask questions of their team, what dynamics would change if it went this way or that way? If it's this person, is that better for us? Is it worse for us? How does that change the argument, the calculus? Is it better for us to shelve the project? There are definitely projects that are still moving. There are definitely deals that are still being worked and done regardless of the election. I don't think it has an outsized impact on the project pipeline, but I do think it's in people's minds. Maybe not as much as interest rates. That's all over the place. What is that, September 17th, 18th, I think? Come on, baby. This is a step in the right direction, and then let's do another one, if you're listening to a non-economist Robert Allen, let's hit two before the end of the year. I don't know if they meet again, but if they do, they need to consider a second. That's holding things up. That definitely is a cork in the bottle. But yeah, people do pay attention to the presidential, and they want to know how that's going to turn out. Obviously, they'd like to have less uncertainty. Uncertainty kills deals. Time kills deals. Uncertainty kills deals. But there's definitely still movement in the market. 

Chris Powers: Just on that timeline subject, from the time you make that first call, and again, I know this is a blanket question, how long does it take? Is it a year? Are these years in the making or some happen quickly? What's the quickest it could get done and what's the longest? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, we worked a project that was a year. I inherited it in the bottom of the seventh inning. It was a wonderful project. They ultimately chose not to locate anywhere. So, bear with me. A year of time and resources. I think we had four visits in Fort Worth. And then we went to their HQ, grabbed the mayor and some others and snuck away in the middle of the night and went to their HQ. Had a wonderful visit, put on a great show. They ultimately called us and said, we're not locating anywhere. You didn't win, you didn't lose. That obviously hurts. A year of your time; in my case, it was more like six months of my time. But that happens in this business. I will say great feedback from the site consultant who was leading that effort. They said, you did not get out economic developed. That was really important for me.  As a rookie standing up this organization, new to Fort Worth, I didn't want to hear that we got beat or outworked or out hustled. They just chose not to locate outside of their existing footprint. I can live with that. Shortest, realistically, depends on the size of the deal, but I mean, you could do something in a matter of a month or two, if maybe you didn’t need incentives and you just really wanted to just put it on our radar screen. But they can take, again, up to and beyond a year easily. 

Chris Powers: Was the Amazon headquarters number two like the greatest business strategy of all time? Collect all the data from every major city in the country and then basically don't do anything? 

Robert Allen: Pretty smart. 

Chris Powers: Will we ever see something like that? Does that happen? 

Robert Allen: I don't think you're going to see that again. Sorry, two questions there. One, I don't think you're ever going to see something of that scale again for reasons I'll tell you in a minute. Two, do we ever have people that it feels like a data dump? Absolutely. Sure. Tell me about all your sites. Tell me about… Okay. It's a game. Sure. We'll play it. Or we won't. Or we'll respectfully decline. I think Amazon HQ2, for those out there that were really knee deep in it and worked it hard, it has a lot of scar tissue, left a lot of scar tissue. And then ultimately just look how it all played out. They chose a community in New York that really didn't want them. They went into Virginia. They did a little consolation prize in Nashville. I think you'd have to certainly ask the company how they feel about it, but the political backlash that they faced in New York was fierce. That's tough. You're going to look at that. That's why I don't think you're ever going to see something on that scale again. If a company did that, I think it would be much quieter about it. It wouldn't necessarily go as public and it wouldn't be a big deal. I would have loved to have been in the room when they got to go through all their submissions. That would have been phenomenal. 

Chris Powers: I can't imagine. I mean, they got to know their customers better. They got to know the layout of the cities they're going to go into. I just have this like vision that Jeff had some like, not ulterior motive, but there was some grander plan. 

Robert Allen: Sure. Yeah, well, we'll see. Time will tell. 

Chris Powers: I want to get to Project Pipeline and talk about the wins, but real quick, I just have this note I keep staring at. You, and just making sure we didn't miss anything, you said one of the reasons you chose Fort Worth was that it had great bones. Is there anything from the bones perspective we haven't talked about that, from your perspective, you said this city's ripe even as it goes to like public infrastructure, highway systems, rail? Do we have enough electricity here? All these things. What else do you look at that categorizes bones?

Robert Allen: TRWD. I was not- I knew what TRWD was when I said yes. I have some good friends that serve in that capacity. And so they kind of kept me generally briefed, but I didn't realize the impact. I didn't realize that they provide raw water for roughly 2 million North Texans. 11 counties I think they service in North Texas. We are conditioned to turn on the tap or drink your water and it's just there. I think electricity and power has taken a lot of the attention rightfully so as freezes have come through Texas and we've had some very difficult times and unfortunately we've lost a lot of life because of that. But I knew that there was something interesting going on at TRWD. Water is going to be the new power. There's no doubt about it as we move forward in this state. Water in my opinion will be the new power. 

Chris Powers: What does that mean? 

Robert Allen: It means if we're not thinking about what our water usage is going to be in 50 years and planning for it, we're going to be in trouble. Just like they're doing with power now, and you're starting to see the legislature try to incentivize more dispatchable power and energy, I think you will see the focus shift to water soon in the not so distant future. 30-year water plans, you hear that from the professionals. I think we're looking at a 50-year water plan as I understand it from TRWD. Eventually, I think you should be talking about this in 100 years, because the population growth that is projected for Texas is phenomenally large. That's one of the pieces that I think is really important. You can move around the city quite well. If somebody is listening to this or when they listen to this and they're sitting in traffic, I'm sorry, I apologize, except you're still probably moving around decently well. I lived in Austin for 25 years. I know what it feels like to not move around well. So that's important. The infrastructure and the continual build out of that infrastructure is really important. And then other things I think about when I think about bones, again, culture, identity. Somebody was asking me the other day, what would happen if we removed certain large elements out of Fort Worth? They threw in Alliance. What happens if Alliance wasn't in Fort Worth? What happens if we didn't have the museums we have? I said, you would have a vanilla city. Joe Ts. You can insert any memorable, large name that makes Fort Worth special. And so when people get frustrated that we're not winning, I do encourage people to always take a moment and think, what do we have? What are we grateful for? So those bones that I talk about, those are things that I looked at and said, yeah, the pieces are there. The pieces are there. 

Chris Powers: One other thing, a lot of people say, oh, jobs are coming to town, and to the average person, no offense, but if I told you, Johnny, I said 10,000 jobs are coming to town, you'd probably be like, that's a lot of jobs. But my question to you is can you expand on what does 10,000 jobs do for a city? And take that any direction you want, so that somebody, when they hear 10,000 jobs, they don't just think of 10,000 people showing up to work, they think about that's 100 new restaurants open. What are the impacts of 10,000 jobs or 1,000 jobs? How do you think about it? 

Robert Allen: Yeah, I actually think about it not in the number of jobs, but in the quality of the job. Now, 10,000 jobs would be phenomenal, that'd be great. But it would leave a lot to be desired if we were paying $25,000 an hour, or $25,000 a year for those 10,000 jobs. So, I look at it from the perspective of the quality of the job. What are we doing at the end of the day with this job? What sector is it in? Is it a good wage? Because they're going to be living, hopefully, in our community. You might be sending kids to schools in our community. You're buying dinner in our community. So on and so forth. You can start to tie them together quickly. Those are tax paying citizens at the end of the day. That's what they are. But they're also contributing to your community. They may get on boards. They may create the next fortune 500. The next Amazon may come out of one of those jobs. So, I always ask the question of, okay, how many jobs are we creating? That's important to ask. But then what's the wage? Are we in a targeted industry or are we in an emerging industry? Maybe we're in a sector where we really want to be down the road. Maybe it's an AI based business that we want to be having a conversation in, and we're bringing the C-suite in with all of their technical leadership that's paying 100,000 plus a year. So I think you have to ask not just the quantity, but the quality of. That's how I look at it. And I think it's important if you do that to always be mindful of, again, it's not just about the numbers to me. It's about the impact that the numbers can have. Raw numbers are fine, but only if they bring the quality with them of those other things that I articulated. 

Chris Powers: Got it. All right. I want to, as we're coming down the pipeline here, talk about the project pipeline. I'm going to go through some stats that your office sent over. And then you take it whichever direction you want. Since January 1st, 2024, 80 new inquiries came into the office. So far, we've closed eight. We've declined 31. We've sent an RFI to 17. We've announced five wins. 13 are still in early stages. And we have 11 active projects. Whatever you can say about that, maybe we can start with the closed eight. 

Robert Allen: Yeah. I think it's important when you, again, talk about these projects. You want to learn everything you can learn as quickly as you can learn it. That's difficult to do in a lot of these because these RFPs come in and they're very basic and they're very high level. I'm going to give you an example of something that we ask now that's very impactful. We are subject to something called severe nonattainment. This is environmental restriction, comes out of the EPA, TCEQ is in charge of enforcing it. And by the way, it's not just Fort Worth, it's 10 or 11 county region, I forget exactly the number, it's either 10 or 11, including our partners to the east. We're all subjects to severe nonattainment. Effectively what it does, Chris, at the end of the day, is put a cap on the amount of emissions for NOx and VOC specifically. 

Chris Powers: What's that? 

Robert Allen: So, great question. Have you ever painted a house, that smell that comes with the paint, that's VOC. Try painting… Yeah, it can be powerful, right? So, that obviously is bad for the environment. And so, you have to have credits if you trip over a certain number if you're subject to severe nonattainment. We are subject to severe non-attainment as of October 2022. So you need to know this and you need to know and be honest with projects that come to us, what is your environmental output? What are your numbers? Can we talk to your engineers pretty quickly? And be truthful and honest. We are subject to this. Here are the requirements. If you trip 25 tons per annum, by the way, which is the cap, then you've got to get credits for every ton over that. But if you don't get the credit for the 0 to 25, bear with me, they kick you all the way back down to 0. For every ton, you've got a 1.3 multiplier. So, you need a credit for 1.3 ton from starting at 0 if you trip over. That's important to know. Some would say, well, it's an Achilles heel. I would say it's just being honest and truthful about the region we're in and what we’ve got to deal with. So when you look at some of those projects that we've declined or closed, some of them have had very large environmental impacts, and we have gone to the companies and we have said, can we have a conversation with TCEQ? Would you like that conversation? We worked through that, and they come back and say, we can't get our numbers down. We're not going to be able to get the credits we need. That's a fact, the game that we are in and the reality we're in. And so, that's an example I would give you that, again, that's not going to show up in the box score. We're not going to go out and put a press release out that says we're subject to and it's cost us this many jobs. I’st just, those are the rules of engagement and we have to play within those. 

Chris Powers: And on that one thing, does every city in the country have that or was that a Fort Worth specific thing? 

Robert Allen: No, it's only certain communities that have larger levels of these pollutants. And so it's not everybody. A lot of reasons, by the way, that Tesla went where they went, but I will just point out that Austin is not subject to severe nonattainment. 

Chris Powers: Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, you closed eight deals. What did those- give us a flavor of that. 

Robert Allen: Primarily in the advanced manufacturing sector, that's where we're seeing a lot of the deals. 

Chris Powers: I've heard you say that a lot. 

Robert Allen: Yep, primarily in that sector. A lot of aerospace that's there as well. And these are deals, some of these deals we inherited, some were born on our watch. A non-advanced manufacturing deal that we closed was the UTA West deal. 

Chris Powers: That's huge, out of Walsh. Why is that huge? 

Robert Allen: Because it demonstrates a desire and a willingness to invest in higher education in your community. Full stop. 

Chris Powers: So between A&M and UTA coming, you notice how I ended up with that? 

Robert Allen: I do. It's funny how that happens. 

Chris Powers: Between A&M and UTA is what I meant to do. Okay, then go with that for a second. 

Robert Allen: So again, it demonstrates to C-suites, employers, directors of HR, we're investing in our workforce development in Fort Worth for the foreseeable future. When you have institutions of that size and power that say, I'm not just going to set up a small outpost. In A&M's case, they've invested in blocks in downtown Fort Worth. Transformative. Dean Adia is getting a beautiful law school as we speak. I keep talking to him about changing the flag on the back of the crane. We’ve got to work on that. Then good news came out a couple of weeks back from the Board of Regents that they've gotten the green light to move forward to the design phase of building two. That's a resource and innovation building. I'm very interested to see that come online, as you might imagine. Then they've got grander plans for more down there. That in and of itself is huge. Then you have the announcement that UTA, the University of Texas Board of Regents actually approves a 51 acre purchase at Walsh to put a campus on the ground, they want students churning through there in 2028. We're on a quick timetable. Dr. Callie and her team are phenomenal to work with. It's a two-phased approach. There's a North Campus and a South Campus. I think soon, hopefully, they'll be announcing what their focus is going to be. It's going to be transformative stuff for the western portion of Fort Worth. That sends a very clear signal. And then by the way, you layer on what TCU is doing with their master campus plan that has been released. I saw a lot of new buildings on that map, talked to President Pullin about it, I said thank you. I see a lot of growth, I see a lot of buildings, that's excellent. And then layer in Texas Westland and TCC, I mean, it takes all of them. It takes a village. And that, again, that's not a business expansion, but it's transformative for our ability to deliver workforce as we move forward. It's huge. 

Chris Powers: And real quick, I can assume the reason why advanced manufacturing manufacturing is the ticket of the day is because of what industry already exists here. If I were to say to you, de-globalization is happening, more people are looking to bring product, call it on-shoring, how real is that? 

Robert Allen: There's some truth to it. 

Chris Powers: Is it still in the early stages, like 10 years from now it'll finally be here, or is it more rhetoric? 

Robert Allen: I think it's probably in between, to be honest with you. And I don't subscribe to a notion that I'm going to wake up on a Tuesday, three years from now, and there's going to be some report that says near-shoring is complete. I think this is an iterative process. I think you're going to see, look at Mexico. I mean, look at what is happening in the manufacturing sector in Mexico alone. You've got a tremendous amount of name brands that are putting some large footprints just south of us. I think there’s a couple reasons for that. I think new NAFTA, whatever you want to call it, 2.0. I think geopolitical issues that led to some of that under previous administrations. I think people are realizing the power and might of the United States of America and Texas, bring it back to us, Texas, down the road, they have cheap labor. So they certainly beat us there, but they realize they have access to that trucking corridor that runs right through the heart of Texas. And that has been something that we've been certainly paying a lot of attention to. It's not lost on us. So, again, I don't think we're going to wake up someday and see a headline that says it's over. We've nearshored. And I think it'd be really hard to do that. But I think what you're going to see is a continuation of people wanting to get to the states, wanting to get to key states in the United States that have made crystal clear that they're pro-business, that have made crystal clear that they want future investment and that have articulated policies as such, and I think that's what you're going to continue to see. And what we want to do is make sure that Fort Worth is right there in the heart of that conversation when it comes to Texas. I'm obviously very bullish on Texas. I'm very bullish on Fort Worth in the Texas conversation. And I think we've got a great story to tell. 

Chris Powers: All right. What is the most valuable thing a listener right now could do for you and your team? 

Robert Allen: You asked for one, I'm going to give you two. 

Chris Powers: Give me three if you want. 

Robert Allen: Everyone that listens to this is an ambassador for Fort Worth in one way or another. You never know where your conversations go. So if you're on an airplane, if you're at an event, if you're at dinner, and you're striking up a conversation with somebody, remember what you say about Fort Worth, because it may come back. So, talk about why you love it. Talk about why you live here, why you've raised your family here, why you've built your business, why you are a second, third, fourth, fifth generation Fort Worthian. So, we're all ambassadors, so it takes a village. Number two, don't assume we know. I get this a lot. People are like, well, surely you know about so and so looking, don't assume we know. If there is somebody who you know is looking or interested or wants to have a business conversation, please call us. And then obviously number three is support our efforts. This is a 501(c)(6) nonprofit. So support our efforts. That would be helpful. 

Chris Powers: How?

Robert Allen: Financial, obviously, is the first thing that gets us there. Go to our website, call Chelsea Griffith, who is the head of investor relations for us, and open up a dialogue and conversation. We’ve got to keep the team on the field. We’ve got to stay proactive. We’ve got to go on offense. But it does come back to those first two points. I always tell people all the time, don't assume that people know and don't assume that your words don't have an impact because they do. Be positive about Fort Worth, the region, what it has given to you. I have not been as blessed yet. I'm only 18 months in. If I look, if I fast forward to the end of my career, I hope I'm still in Fort Worth. My wife and I made a decision that hopefully will be the last decision to move. And so it's easy for us to get frustrated and down and focus on the negativity. What I always encourage people to do is just to remind ourselves what we have. Think about some other communities that don't have it as fortunate as we do today. And let's go to work to change it. Be a positive ambassador for Fort Worth. Call us if you have a lead. 

Chris Powers: I'm going to be a positive ambassador for you for Fort Worth. 

Robert Allen: Thank you. You have been, by the way. Your episodes are phenomenal because it really gets into, in my opinion, what makes Fort Worth so special. 

Chris Powers: I appreciate it. All right, I'm going to leave you with this one, and maybe you've thought about this, maybe you haven't. If we were sitting down here 10 years from now, what would a good job have looked like? 

Robert Allen: That's a great question. One, it's still here. A good job in 10 years is a job that's still here. It's also a job that has borne other jobs or other positive results in Fort Worth. And again, it could be community service, it could be a board service, it could be a new initiative that was kicked off by that job. And then maybe at the end of the day, I would look at it and I would say, I hope that it's something we as Fort Worthians could be proud of. Back to my very first point, it's a job that's still there because I've said often, I don't want to bring jobs to Fort Worth that are gone in three years or five years. If I do that, I will consider that a failure because we either didn't do our homework or we didn't provide the support as a community that we needed to. So that's what success would look like in a job in 10 years. It's a great question. I hadn't thought about that. 

Chris Powers: Well, I'm going to have you back in 10 years because I'm going to still have this job. 

Chris Powers: Hopefully soon. Hopefully soon. 

Chris Powers: Hopefully sooner. Robert, thanks for joining me today. 

Robert Allen: Thanks for having me, Chris. I appreciate it very much.